mccarthy. quote, on january 10th, so four days after the attack on the capitol, kevin mccarthy convened a small group of house republican leaders to share his thinking. speaking with just three other top republicans on a private, call mccarthy said he might call on trump to resign. he conferred for more than 45 minutes, with steve scalise, liz cheney, and tom amr, the minnesota congressman who led the republicans campaign committee. the usually upbeat mccarthy was audibly anguished. the gravity of the attack was still sinking in, and it seemed increasingly clear to him that he had to break with trump, it was finally time to end their alliance. his plan, mccarthy said, was to approach president trump, and tell him it was inevitable that congress would impeach him, and it isn't time for him to he envisioned telling trump of an impeachment resolution, saying, quote, i think this will pass. and it would be my recommendation that you should resign. i think this will pass, meaning the impeachment res

martin say about kevin mccarthy. quote, on january 10th, kevin mccarthy convened a small group of house republican leaders to share his thinking. speaking with just three other top republicans on a private call, mccarthy said he might call on trump to resign. he conferred for more than 45 minutes with steven scalise, liz cheney and tom emmer, the minnesota congressman who led the house republicans campaign committee. the usually upbeat mr. mccarthy was audibly anguished. the gravity of the attack was still sinking in. and it seemed increasingly clear to him that he had to break with trump. it was finally time to end they're lines. his plan, mccarthy said on that january 10th call was to approach president trump and tell him it was inevitable that congress would impeach him, and it was time for him to go. he envisioned telling trump of an impeachment resolution, quote, i think this will pass. and it would be my recommendation you should resign. i think this will pass, meaning the impeachment resolution will pass, mean

we have mccarthy saying here he would push trump resign. mccarthy is flat out lying about this. it's very damaging to him even before the lie. but then lying about it is just untenable. you can't be this dishonest about things this big. and hold a leadership job that's about to become way bigger. >> well you certainly can't do that and hold a democratic leadership job. we are now going to see the test of, we know as a republican you can lie like this in the presidency and republican voters have no problem with it. and republican members of congress had a problem with it. we're going to find out what house republican tolerance is for this kind of lying by kevin mccarthy. and as far as they might be trail of donald trump. >> that's the other part of it. i mean how do you think that trump is going to respond to hearing on tape kevin mccarthy say i'm gonna tell him he's got to resign. and to hear, from the same reporters, in the same shop for the book, the mcconnell was sort of gleefully saying yeah the democrats are going to get rid of that s. o. b. for us. >> i mean already, trump

(lori mccarthy) i do. (sophie fouron) you do. - it makes the perfect accompaniment to fish. like this one here, this one is a bladderwrack. i'm going to show you. you hold this one. - yes. - and actually, that should be enough. - that should be enough? - just take what you need, that's my, you know... - yeah. - yeah, so that will be lots for the mussels that we have. - nice. - yeah. - so now we're off to your cabin, lori. - off to the cabin. a place where you go to hide away. i'll spend more time out here than i do in town, especially this time of year. even people who live right out around the bays, they want to have a cabin across the harbour. they would get in the boat and go over to the cabin. it's just a lifestyle, usually on the weekends. the highways are blocked with campers and everyone going out. if you're not in a cabin, you got a camper and you're going gravel pit camping, which is like any empty pit, you just stop, and that's what you do for the weekend. (sophie fouron) so your parents are at t

she is from the dna of kevin mccarthy, she was a george w. bush person and, you know, now she's sort of like a dress barn jim jordan. this is a totally -- [ laughter ] -- in washington in order to take that job from kevin mccarthy. >> you know, juanita, i see the democrat sitting off on the side while this party dissolves into a hot crazy mess. i mean, there is going to be more tapes that are going to prove that none of these people really believe any of this but they're willing to do it. they're willing to throw the dignity aside and throw the united states and our democracy aside in this desperate clutch for power where they think they'll be the new dooma when trump becomes bizarre. it undigfied but not being answered. j.d. vance of yale is out there pretending he represents the little guy and trump, he hates donald trump and said he was maybe hitler. and none of that matters. they're all reflecting toward this man with no power currently and i wonder if you feel there is a missed opportunity to message the danger of these people taking ove

mccarthy. quote, on january 10th, so four days after the attack on the capitol, kevin mccarthy convened a small group of house republican leaders to share his thinking. speaking with just three other top and probably ends on private call, mccarthy said he might call on trump to resign. he conferred for more than 45 minutes, with steve scalise, liz cheney, and tom amr, the minnesota congressman who led the republicans campaign committee. the usually upbeat mccarthy was audibly anguished. the gravity of the attack was still sinking in, and it seemed increasingly clear to him that he had to break with trump, it was finally time to end their alliance. his plan, mccarthy said, was to approach president trump, and tell him it was inevitable that congress would impeach him, and it isn't time for him to go. he envisioned telling trump about a peach man resolution. quote, i think this will pass. and it would be my recommendation, you should resign. i think this will pass, meaning the impeachment resolut

kevin mccarthy is marjorie taylor greene, and marjorie taylor greene is kevin mccarthy, and they're both donald trump. they will say anything to address the passions of the moment, and then, walk it back for the personal consequences for their own political fortunes. what i saw in the state was a politician willing to lie under oath, but also continue to try to elevate her own brand above the nation's needs. that is true of kevin mccarthy. that is true of donald trump. that is true of mitch mcconnell. that is true in a georgia courtroom this week of marjorie taylor greene. >> danielle, in one particular moment that stood out is when marjorie taylor greene was asked if she urged donald trump to impose martial law to stay in power. let's listen. >> you had meetings with donald trump prior to the election in 2020, and january 20th, 2021, right? >> yes. >> and in those meetings, you discussed with him your avid idea that there should be martial law declared in the united states. >> no, i don't recall ever discussing this. >> are you saying it didn't happen? or are you saying -- >> i don't re

mccarthy is in the same category. as someone that remains a reluctant republican is the motive is two tracks. private bravery and public bootlicking. that's what we have seen time and time again. not just recently and after the election why this goes back far in time to 2016. mccarthy sat in paul ryan's office with me when we had conversations about a trump i inoculation plan. he thought donald trump was a disaster, needed to be stopped. would he admit to that today? i hope a reporter asks him. did he subscribe to the trump inoculation plan? why did he change the tune so quickly? the very big concern is someone potentially in line to go be speaker of the house who has been proven to be lying. we say things like show us the receipts. he said it in the past 12 hours. lied to the american people. i think that's disqualifying for the country job. what gives me worry is if mccarthy can't get the speakership i worry now that they'll go further to the right and someone more trumpy and engaged further in the actions to foment

mccarthy should not be in office. the republicans have not done a damn thing since they have been in office in this congress. they are us up the same road as trump. this has to stop. host: in georgetown, massachusetts, an independent. good morning. caller: thank you for having me on. you look at the content of this club and -- this clip and it goes right in line with what the media is dishing out. i think our country seems to be a victim of whatever the media dishes out. tickets eden on the others -- it gets eaten on the others. it doesn't matter. we are a nation of drive-thru news. we want to pull up, spend as little money as possible, have it as quick as possible, presented to us in a nice little bag that we can open up and get our tasty treats that make us feel good, but you know want? when it comes to news, we need to stop the drive-thru. we need to get out of the car. we need to look at the food. we need to put it together and then consume it, because the processed news that we are getting has led us to this stat

we have mccarthy saying here he would push trump resign. mccarthy is flat out lying about this. it's very damaging to him even before the lie. but then lying about it is just untenable. you can't be this dishonest about things this big. and hold a leadership job that's about to become way bigger. >> well you certainly can't do that and hold a democratic leadership job. we are now going to see the test of, we know as a republican you can lie like this in the presidency and republican voters have no problem with it. and republican members of congress had a problem with it. we're going to find out what house republican tolerance is for this kind of lying by kevin mccarthy. and as far as they might be trail of donald trump. >> that's the other part of it. i mean how do you think that trump is going to respond to hearing on tape cover mccarthy say i'm going to tell there's got to resign. and to hear, from the same reporters, in the same shop for the book, the mcconnell was sort of gleefully saying yeah the democrats are going to get rid of that s.o.b. for us. >> i mean already, trump

and even kevin mccarthy -- what the right has done to nancy pelosi the left has not done with mccarthy. >> i think that right now republicans are trying to express their voters care about inflation, the border, things like that. focussing on january 6th is not something they care about. they change the topic of conversation when i ask them about this. public or private. i think it'll continue to be like that. >> sadly, carlos, even though what would be right for the history books and the investigation, there is no upside for kevin mccarthy to voluntarily participate in the january 6th investigation, is there? >> no. i think the most we'll get from him, you know, are the leaks and secondhand accounts of things he told other people. again, the sad part is, it's obvious where he stood as a couple of people said already. >> yeah. mccarthy is a normal guy. i mean, his reaction to january 6th was visceral. he was agitated and anxious and nervous and worried. he can't say any of these things. he can't admit them. that's very frustrating. >> audrey, eugene, carlos, thank you for bearing with t

mccarthy at times has annoyed him. he at times -- when he came out and tried to publicly censure him after january 6th happened there was some real frustration there. i don't think their relationship is as warm as some of kevin mccarthy's allies might tell you that it is. but right now there doesn't seem to be any overwhelming desire to crush mccarthy from the former president. i think he probably goes to fight another day. >> for all of us who cover these speakership race when's they develop the first rule is you can't beat somebody with nobody. so we'll see if there's another republican who tries to take advantage of this situation when it comes to mccarthy. marianna, i want to play for you something one of the reporters behind this upcoming book said about additional audio they've collected. take a listen. >> we have a lot more on tape from this period, which is at the highest levels of american politics. it is sensitive, it's delicate, and it's high stakes. and we have it all on tape. and it's going to i think tell

kevin mccarthy is much retailer greene, and marjorie taylor greene's kevin mccarthy, and they're both donald trump. they will say anything to address the passions of the moment, and then, walk it back when the personal consequences for their own political fortunes. what i saw in the state was a politician willing to lie under oath, but also continue to try to elevate their own brand above the nation's needs. that is true of kevin mccarthy. that is two of donald trump. that is true of mitch mcconnell. that is two in a georgia courtroom this week of marjorie taylor greene. >> danielle, in one particular moment that stood out is when marjorie taylor greene was asked if she urged donald trump to impose martial law to stay in power. let's listen. >> you had a means to rescind the election in 2020, and january 20th, 2021, right? >> yes. >> and in those meetings, you discussed with him your avid idea that there should be marcia lost declared in the united states. >> no, i don't recall ever discussing this. >> are you saying it didn't happen? or are you saying -- >> i don't recall ever saying

can kevin mccarthy make peace? mccarthy spoke to trump last night. he has reason to try to say, whoops. we'll get more into that. i want to listen to more of this audio. this is what kevin mccarthy talked about. people are in a very different position now. back then in the days just after the insurrection, kevin mccarthy, donald trump, i'm done with him. >> all right. i know this is not fun. i know this is not great. very tough. but what i want to do especially through here is -- i don't want to rush things. i want everybody to have all the information needed. i have had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> i've had it with this guy. >> i've had it with this guy. that was a moment in which, you guys detail, not just kevin mccarthy, mitch mcconnell, said, look, the democrats have the votes to impeach him again for post-election conduct and maybe we should be part of that. maybe we should be part of getting rid of trump. but they blinked. >> on that very call you have kevin mccarthy talk

these two men, mccarthy and mcconnell, both kind of flirted with throwing me overboard, but mccarthy is fully in my corner, and mcconnell has said he will support me if he -- if i am the next republican nominee for president. so, i think that's what they're focused on. and listen, to mcconnell's, i don't want to say credit, but most republican senators understand what mitch mcconnell thinks of donald trump. he won't even say the man's name. he won't talk about him. he did obviously vote against impeachment, so when it came time to put a vote to those theories and to those thoughts that he had, he did not do it. so, i think that i -- from what i see, standing here today at the end of april, election day is kind of far away and the next speaker election is very far away, what a lot of republicans i talk to think is that. they think that kevin mccarthy did not ultimately do what he said he was going to do, and furthermore, is the only option to be speaker in their mind, but i have had republicans say to me, a few, not many, that almost the opposite of what eric swalwell just said, which

kevin mccarthy was ridiculed for that a mark. ultimately, he stayed for running to speaker up to and including the very moment that every member of the house republican caucus piled into a big room for the vote. kevin mccarthy was there with his family. john boehner gavel the meeting to session. every once in the pledge of allegiance. at which time, kevin mccarthy stood up and announced that he was quoting the race for how speaker. again, this was at the vote for the house speaker. the entire thing was a fiasco. he said part of the reason he decided his can this is c was untenable was because of that loose flip gap about trying to take hillary clinton's personal break. >> how much do your comments about benghazi last week play into your decision to step aside today? >> that was a helpful. [laughs] i could have said it much better. >> it was bad. it was a deeply embarrassing moment for the russian party. memories are very shore in washington. indian, kevin mccarthy climbed his way back into the good graces of the party. in particu

this is how mccarthy's time. when he lost his speakership in 2015, he knew that every day he would have to wake up to regain it. the only pathway he has, mehdi, is to dramatically expand the house conference, so that he has more votes than needed, so that he does not have to worry about the marjorie taylor greene's and so forth. >> talking of matt gauge, when you made these comments at a rally, we will kind of laughed. have a listen. >> give us the ability to fire nancy pelosi, take back the majority, impeach joe biden, and i will nominate donald trump for speaker of the united states house of representatives! >> we may have all laughed, but did the idea of speaker of the house donald trump become a little bit more plausible over the last 24 hours? >> it absolutely did. any member can nominate anybody. they do not to be a member of the house. matt gates nominated donald trump. donald trump will likely say he does not want the job, but, of course, let's see how he plays the narrative here. here's what i tell not g

what is mccarthy saying now? >> reporter: kevin mccarthy and the former president have reportedly spoken over the phone at least three times since these audio recordings have surfaced. but this new open line of communication between the two of them is not enough for some house republicans as they await permission from the still undisputed leader of their party before forgiing mccarthy. kevin mccarthy is on defense friday night, for the first time addressing and denying leaked audio recordings of his private conversations about former president trump. >> i've never asked the president to resign, i never thought that he should resign. >> reporter: in a new interview, mccarthy dismissing the audio of his call with gop leadership four days after the deadly attack on the capitol. in the call, saying that he would urge then president trump to resign before the end of his term. mccarthy insisting that the thought never even crossed his mind. but the audio released by "new york times" reporters tells a different story. m

mccarthy. other republicans who initially criticized him at the gym or six and then said there was no support him. they realize they were wrong and supported me. nbc news reports that one person close to trump set mccarthy called the former president and apologized. earlier tonight, we heard from kevin mccarthy himself. >> congressman, have you spoken with president trump recently? did you speak with him last night? >> i spoke to him twice today, just an hour ago. >> how is your conversation? did you talk about the new york times report and the conversation you had -- >> the conversation is very good. the conversation of they said we did, we never did, i never asked him to resign, we will talk about that. >> have you spoke with him about resigning? >> no, let me be clear. i have never asked the president to resign. with the book said was not true. i never asked the president to resign. we talked about the ability to win the majority back in congress. >> we should point out that the book, this w

now we learned that mccarthy was not just concerned about trump. according to leak audio obtained by the new york times, on the january 10th call, just four days after the insurrection, mccarthy also expressed concerns that republicans in his own conference might incite [inaudible] , on the january 10th call, just four days after the insurrection, mccarthy also [inaudible] i don't want to look back and think someone got hurt. i don't play politics with anybody. mccarthy sing a lot of republican congressman matt gates in florida someone who's inflammatory rhetoric might get people hurt. mccarthy was wary that gates who frequently criticize fellow republicans by name for being insufficiently loyal to trump in his eyes, was inflaming tensions at a time when the country was already in volatile position. he was a concern echoed by others in the call, including the number two republican in caucus, a man who was shot, we should remember, congressman steve scalise. >> [inaudible] a lot of members have said some real concerning things. >> did they say somet

mccarthy and his office is we have obtained audio of that january 10th call mccarthy held in which he said, he's going to call trump and tell him that he must resign. >> there you have it. rachel reporting on that. the tapes and the underlying sources there are from this new book you may have heard about. "this will not pass," by "new york times" journalists. the secret calls were five days after the insurrection. they revealed top republicans say they were privately pressing trump on his responsibility. >> let me be very clear to all of you, and i am very clear to the president. he bears responsibilities for his words and actions. no ifs, ands, or buts. i asked him personally today does he hold responsibility for what happened, does he feel bad about what happened. he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. and we need to acknowledge that. >> this goes well beyond the lies. it shows the republican party is led by people like mr. mccarthy who privately, secretly, saw the insurrection for what it was, a terrible trump-fuelled attack on democracy. and then people who

mccarthy. mr. mccarthy suffers from a lack of trust within his own conference, certainly a lack of trust in this congress. and leaders who truly lead have to have that quality of trust. mr. mccarthy can't be trusted to tell the truth in two different places in two different minutes. and so you can see his conference is flailing. there's blood in the water. i have said for months i don't think he will remain the leader. if they should somehow take the majority, which i don't believe they will. but he's -- >> i think we lost the congresswoman. i want to bring you in, joyce vance, and put the same kind of question to you about whether there's something about kevin mccarthy and steve scalise admitting on tape in the one instance what one of the members does is worse than what trump did which they view at least in the call as impeachable and describe their own member's conduct as going farther than what was impeachable in the case of donald trump. steve scalise saying he thought matt gaetz' conduct was

paula, has mccarthy been able to calm his troops after this? >> well, jake, it's only been about 24 hours but so far, it appears that most house republicans are closing ranks around mccarthy. publicly rallying behind him after those audio recordings revealed his concerns about, as you just described, fellow gop lawmakers possibly inciting violence in the wake of the insurrection. this morning, republicans huddled behind closed doors for a meeting. sources in the room say mccarthy attempted to explain that he was simply discussing scenarios, that the tape's release didn't include all of the context and he never acted on much of what he said. he also insisted that the audio reported by "the new york times" was part of an effort to divide the gop ahead of the midterm elections. he got a standing ovation for that explanation. even congressman mo brooks who was specifically criticized by mccarthy in these recordings is among those members who say they're willing to move on. but not every conference member is ready to forgive and forget. some members

now we learned that mccarthy was not just concerned about trump. according to leak audio obtained by the new york times, on the january 10th call, just four days after the insurrection, mccarthy also expressed concerns that republicans in his own conference might incite violence against their fellow party members. party members. that's our model moment of moral clarity. i don't want to look back and think someone got hurt. i don't play politics with anybody. mccarthy sing a lot of republican congressman matt gates in florida someone who's inflammatory rhetoric might get people hurt. mccarthy was wary that gates who frequently criticize fellow republicans by name for being insufficiently loyal to trump in his eyes, was inflaming tensions at a time when the country was already in volatile position. he was a concern echoed by others in the call, including the number two republican in caucus, a man who was shot, we should remember, congressman steve scalise. >> [inaudible] a lot of members have said some real concerning things. >> did they say somethin

. >> they want to hear from kevin mccarthy? >> yes, we've invited him to come earlier before the latest revelation that was reported on tapes. so, in all probability, he will be issued another invitation to come just like some other members. >> when will that happen? >> soon. >> this week? >> soon. >> mccarthy in the other two republicans, there is some new members and that was well. >> for sure, leader mccarthy, will make a decision on any others before the week is out. >> if he doesn't respond to that invitation, second innovation, which you subpoena him at that point? >> well, that'll be a consideration for the committee to decide. >> that was the chair of the january 6th investigation, congressman benny thompson saying that the committee will be issuing another invitation to the republican house leader kevin mccarthy for him to come speak with him. you'll recall that the investigation has issued a number of request, voluntary requests for interviews with republican members of congress, who appear to be directly implicated i

mccarthy was boxed in. now we have republicans, they believe, standing on the precipice of taking over the house come november, they don't want to get to get anything to get in the way. they view this largely as a distraction. and when you have that congressman saying, oh, no nobody cares about january 6th. you can argue that it is awful and appalling for any elected member of congress to say that nobody cares about january 6th. and that it's history. that was the other part of the comment that he made, that it was old news, effectively he was saying. but if that congressman was talking about that base republican voters, i think he's right. the republican party, that is a commentary on the political forces driving the republican party right now. and frankly, when i say forces, it shouldn't be plural, it should be singular. the political force driving the republican party is donald trump. kevin mccarthy, based on his behavior over the last three or for days knows that to get cross lies with the president put

and everything that mccarthy has said, the one that could cause mccarthy some trouble is saying that trump admitted to some responsibility. i expect a statement where trump says i never said anything such thing. but the bigger issue for mccarthy to get through, if he's going to get through it, is does he keep his members on board with his candidacy for speaker, can he keep any discomfort back home in response to questions about this at a minimum. and if he can do that, then this is really interesting and important news but it won't impact his trajectory much. if this becomes a problem where voters back home are asking their members what the heck's going on with your leadership, then mccarthy has a problem. >> also, david, i mean the fact that m his caucus when he's talking, someone is recording it and recording a series of conversations and then passing that recording on. i mean, that in and of itself shows not a lot of loyalty or even support, right? >> well, what it shows is that you're breaking the ironclad rule of politics that you're not supposed to break. we think we've broken

nbc news asked mccarthy's office if leader mccarthy said he would push trump to resign. a spokesman said quote no, he did not. but tonight, there are tapes. the bucks authors have just sheared this recording of that january 10th phone call with kevin mccarthy, with directly contradicts that denial. >> less, you on the phone? >> yes, i'm here. thanks, kevin. i guess there's a question. when we're talking about the 25th amendment resolution -- >> yeah. >> and you asked if, you know, what happens if it gets there after he's gone? is there any chance of any hearing that he might resign? is there any reason to think that might happen? >> i've had a few discussion. my guts tell me no. i am seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. i haven't talked to him in a couple days. from what i know of him, i mean, you guys all know him, to, do you think he'd ever back away? but what i think i'm going to do, is i'm going to call him. this is what i think. we know it will pass the house. i think there's a chance it will pass the senate, even when he's gone. and i th

so i'm sure that's helping mccarthy as he mounts a defense to this. the other thing going on is just the political dynamic. i think everybody in the house republican conference or the party at large believes it's almost a mortal lock that the republicans are going to win or should win the house majority back. i think there's a strong sense of the team work, the team unity, the team effort going on here that we can't let anything, even if it's uncomfortable, divide us because we're on the cusp of kicking nancy pelosi out of the speaker's chair, so i'm sure that's working in mccarthy's favor as well. >> i have a follow youp. one person who doesn't seem to be getting that unity memo is tucker carlson, and so last night, i just to want play for you what he said about kevin mccarthy. listen to this. >> unless conservatives get their act together right away, kevin mccarthy or one of his highly liberal allies is very likely to be speaker of the house in january. that would mean we would have a republican congress led by a puppet of the democratic party. >> s

and mccarthy gave a one word answer, no. with that, let's bring in our experts and find out what they think. former missouri senator and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill joins us. michael steele, former chairman of the republican national committee and former lieutenant governor of maryland. and that's really for a heavy weinstein, former federal and state prosecutor here in new york. she clerked for merrick garland. we have a lot to cover, claire, i have to go to you first. because, it is not a surprise that this has happened. but it is shocking to actually hear it. you're a member of congress up until just a few years ago. where does this rank on the totally crazy scale? >> listen, nothing in the states surprises me or shocks me. not one word of it. it's a little shocking how inept mccarthy has been at lying about things he said. there for one brief shining moment, yeah she has some courage to speak out. i guess what trump had caused on that fateful day. but nothing in the deep surprised me. i think will surprise m

mccarthy says the reporting was totally false and wrong. hours after that denial, we heard this, proving that mccarthy is the one who is in fact, wrong. >> i'm seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. i have to talk with him in a couple days. from what i know of him, i mean you guys know him too, do you think he would ever back away? what i think i'm going to do is i'm going to call him, the discussion i would have with him is, i think this will pass and it would be my recommendation you should resign. i mean that would be my take but i don't think he would take it. but i don't know. >> well, a source tells cnn, mccarthy went into damage control last night after the tape dropped and spoke with trump, cnn told the former president is not upset with the gop leader, house republican saying, quote, trump was fine with it. so by the end of 2021, mccarthy was back to embracing trump, going down to maralago to kiss the ring, margaret here, so is former u.s. attorney michael moore and breaking tonight, former president trump

mccarthy and republican leaders as mccarthy expressed disgust about president trump. >> let me be very clear to all of you and i have been very clear to the president, he bears responsibilities for his words and actions, no ifs, ands and buts, and i asked him personally, today, does he hold responsibility for what happened? does he feel bad about what happened? and he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. and he needed to acknowledge that. >> i've had it with this guy. what he's done is sun able. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> despite those words, trump told "the wall street journal" on friday that his relationship with mccarthy remains indact because mccarthy changed his stance and he went to mar-a-lago a week or so after trump left office and trump called it quote a big compliment that republicans who criticized him after january 6th would still back him and trump denied he told mccarthy he accepted some responsibility for what happened. mccarthy said he spoke to the public after the audio made public and a person close to the president

we see this with kevin mccarthy. by the way, we're going to talk to david remnick at the top of the hour on russia. we are going to talk to david remnick on russia. we are going to talk to the epa administrator on earth day. we have a lot ahead. >> on sanctions. >> on sanctions. john heilemann, again, we are joking a little bit about kevin here because he sounds so stupid. >> this is a bombshell. >> but this is a bombshell, and it will impact american politics. i think it is more telling though the dies that are constantly told by this populist trump wing of the republican party. >> right. >> and that that has become the defining feature of a political party in 2022. absolutely frightening. take it from there. >> well, yeah, right. so i mean the leader of the party, not just the leader but the guy who is the personality, who has created the cultive personality, the main feature of his personality was being a pathological liar. that has obviously infected the party as much as any of the positions. even the grievance,

it could be mccarthy's staff, the tape could be coming from inside the mccarthy house. on the call, given mccarthy refers to briefings, from the fbi says a donor sixth attack on the capitol, indicating the lives of some members of the house may be in danger. given mccarthy expresses his worry the republican members of the house like matt gates, matt, brooks and others, should stop attacking democratic members of the house by name and some republicans by name, presumably, because kevin mccarthy feared that if the fbi reports were true, one of those members of congress could be the victim of severe or deadly violence, which, could then, be rightly attributed to republican encouragement. >> the other thing that we have to do is, these numbers are fair. whatever position you're calling out, especially in this nature. i'm gonna call him, the pension is too high, the country's too crazy. i did not want to look back and think we caused something, or remain something, like someone got hurt. i want to play politics with anybody. >> the times reports that kevin mccarthy vowed to

mccarthy was boxed in. now we have republicans, they believe, standing on the precipice of taking over the house come november, they don't want to get to get anything to get in the way. they view this largely as a distraction. when you have that congressman saying, oh no, nobody cares about january 6th. you can argue that it is awful and appalling for any elected member of congress to say that nobody cares about january 6th. and that it's history. that was the other part of the comment that he made, that it was old news, effectively he was saying. if that congressman was talking about that base republican voters, i think he's right. the republican party, that is a commentary on the political forces driving the republican party right now. and frankly, when i say forces, it shouldn't be plural, it should be singular. the political force driving the republican party is donald trump. kevin mccarthy, based on his behavior over the last three or four days, to get -- puts himself in peril, and puts the entire part

trump has a good thing going for mccarthy. that would be difficult to replicate with another leader. he didn't have that with paul ryan. he doesn't have that with mcconnell. >> let me bring you into the conversation here because jay martin alex in this peas, we have this audio that came out, they write that of this dynamic that happened, that mr. mccarthy did not follow through on the steps republicans expected him to take. -- in the interest of advancing his own career. so talk to us about the advancement of kevin mccarthy's career here and what a lot of this is about, the potential that he wants to speakership if the republicans take back the house in midterms. >> yeah. he was denied the brass ring in 2015. he wants it. that's what he thinks about all the time. that's one of the reasons why he's so secure at this moment is because he's done a lot of fund raising, and he's done a lot of political favors for his own members and he's done hundreds and hundreds of trips and events and stocked up a lot of political chips inside t

house next year and make mccarthy speaker, kevin mccarthy received a standing ovation. norah. >> o'donnell: scott macfarlane on capitol hill, thank you. well, tonight, a two-year investigation into the minneapolis police department finds a pattern of racial discrimination going back more than a decade. the state investigation was launched after the police killing of george floyd. investigators say minneapolis police stop, search, arrest and use force against people of color at starkly higher rates than white people. the department says it will work with the city to address a long list of problems. president biden was joined today by barack and michelle obama, bill and hillary clinton, and dignitaries from both sides of the aisle, paying tribute to america's first female secretary of state, madeleine albright at her funeral here in washington. president biden said freedom had no greater champion than madeleine albright. albright died of cancer last month at the age of 84. we want to turn now to the growing economic pain being felt across the country due to rising inflati

>> for sure leader mccarthy. we'll make a decision on any others before the week is out. >> if he doesn't respond to that invitation, second invitation, would you subpoena him at that point? >> well, that'll be a consideration for the committee to decide. >> that was the chair of the january 6th investigation congressman benny thompson saying that the committee will be issuing another invitation to the republican house leader kevin mccarthy for him to come speak with them. you'll recall that the investigation has issued a number of requests, voluntary requests for interviews with republican members of congress who appear to be directly implicated in the effort to overthrow the government and reinstall trump in a second term by force. no republican members of congress have agreed to do that, including kevin mccarthy after he was previously invited. they will now say they will invite him a second time following all of these recent revelations about his reaction to the january 6th events. they said that you just hea

it's not just what mccarthy waffled on he thought trump was going to do. he talked about pence pardoning trump, michael. we know you don't talk pardons unless you did something criminally wrong. what does it mean that a top republican like kevin mccarthy had a moment seemed to be clarity about trump and folded like a cheap suit? >> says to me one of two things, either he was lying to us about that clarity or he's lying now. i think in kevin's case it's all a lie. this is how kevin is interested in one thing, preserving kevin's position politically to become the next speaker of the house. that's the only thing that matters, and so in that moment of clarity in early january, where he's talking to his caucus, he was essentially playing one end against the other. i don't know. i doubt that he even said anything to donald trump. the reason being that he would fold like a cheap suit in front of donald trump. this is not a man who is going to stand up to donald trump and tell him sir, you must resign. sir, you must take responsibility. i believe donald trump when

the two reported on what mccarthy said. when mccarthy denied he said that, the reporters produced the proof. the duo also reports that in the days after the attack leader mccarthy and senate minority leader mitch mcconnell told associates they believed trump was responsible for inciting the deadly riot and vowed to drive him from politics. mccarthy went so f push donald resign immediately in a call with liz cheney according to audio given by the "times" to "the rachel maddow show." >> i'm here. i guess there's a question, when we were talking about the 25th amendment resolution -- >> yeah -- >> and you asked if -- you know, what happens if it gets there after he's gone, is there any chance that you're hearing that he might resign? is there any reason to think that might happen? >> i've had a few discussions. my gut tells me no. i'm seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. i haven't talked to him in a couple days. i do not want to get in any conversation about pence pardoning, again, a discussion i ha

so kevin mccarthy going on this trip is a way to kind of change the subject. and it is a problem inside the democratic party because there are a lot of moderate democrats who are saying, don't do this right now, mr. president. you're going to hurt me in my district. i have enough problems, but they, you know, democrats are complaining and republicans are going down there to sort of put it out front for voters. >> good to see you, gloria. >> good to see you. >>> coming up for us, a big win for french president emanuel macron and the reaction from president biden after macron beats the odds. live details f from paris, next. psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen, painful. emerge tremfyant®. tremfya® is approved to help reduce... joint sympto in adults with active psoriatic arthritis. serious allergic reactions y occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. emerge tremfyant® with tremfya®... ask you doctor about

kevin mccarthy helped lead the crusade against her. he supported her losing her leadership role in the party and recently endorsed her primary challenger, despite the fact that he's espoused what appears to be the exact same views as liz cheney. except it was behind closed doors, of course. this comes on the heels of the reporting earlier week from "the new york times" that mccarthy vowed to drive donald trump out of politics, and that he would recommend donald trump resign from office. mccarthy has denied that reporting as totally false. but actually in a separate piece of audio, there's more than one tape also obtained of a phone call between mccarthy and his leadership team. he suggests those tapes suggest mccarthy wasn't telling the truth with his denial either. >> the only discussion i would have with him is that i think this will pass, and it will be my recommendation you should do that. >> you just heard kevin mccarthy tell liz cheney that he would recommend that donald trump resign from office. we don't know who leaked the clip

so what you see playing out here by these candidates, by speaker mccarthy, hopeful speaker mccarthy is that in their political interest, there's no point in it so they quickly try to move on, and that's the smart political thing for them to do. >> what's interesting is this moment, he almost feels, and seems to be emboldened by it saying i can win them over. trump has always been quick to anger and quick to forgiveness. what trump measures is do you like him and like him in the moment and seems to sort of feed on the fight and enjoys the fight and he enjoys winning and ultimately, what happens here is that he gets members who are at odds with him, sometimes over very legitimate things to kind of placate and come back around and in some ways, you can become more esteemed in president trump's eyes by doing all of that. >> looming over the culture wars, we saw it playing out this week in florida where they essentially voted to remove the special status of disney world for disagreeing with this law that bans discussion of gender and sexuality in school through the third grade, what critics

republican leader kevin mccarthy caught in a lie. a new audio where mccarthy said donald trump admitted to baearig some responsibility for the cacapitol insurrections. that's next. spraying flonase daily stops yourur body from overreacting to allergens all seseason long. psst! ! psst! flonase all goo. the sleep number 360® smart bed is on sale now. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because the sleep number 360®mart bed is really smart. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts toelp keep you both comfortable all night. it's also temperature balcing, so you stay cool. it's so smart it knowsxactly how long, how well, and when you sle. sleep number takes care of the science, all you have to do is sleep. don't miss our weekend special. save $1,000 on our most popular smart bed. plus 0% interest for 36 months on all smart beds. ends monday. to learn more, go to sleepnumber.com. way day, wayfair's biggest sale of the year is bigger than ever! for two days only, april 27th and 28th, get the lowest prices on thousa

right now mccarthy says he doesn't have any information to give them. >> clearly mccarthy hasn't told the truth before or after these tapes came out, lauren, so what is he telling house republicans about all of this? >> well, there are some house republicans who are making calls and getting calls from kevin mccarthy to try to do this damage control that melanie was talking about. one of those members who is in house leadership who i spoke with earlier today told me mccarthy is not too worried in part because donald trump seemed to be fine at this moment. hasn't come out publicly against mccarthy. mccarthy is feeling very confident that he's going to be able to contain and do damage control surrounding this controversy, but, obviously, it really remains to be seen what other audio is out there, ana. that's going to be significant and really could turn the tide on whether or not mccarthy is in trouble when he looks down the road hoping to be the next speaker of the house, if republicans win the midterms in 2022. >> lauren fox and melanie zanona, thank you. >>> more than 100 people repor