about bill barr's instructions from 2020? that's kind of a surprise. for every 2020, trump attorney general bill barr put in new guidance over and above what all previous ag said. whqat he said in 2020 was specifically said -- nobody's allowed to investigate anyone connected to a presidential candidate, without his permission, personally, as attorney general. bill barr's memo from 2020, said that no investigation, including any preliminary investigation, may be opened or initiated by the department, or any of its law enforcement agencies for a declared candidate for president or vice president, a presidential campaign, or a senior presidential -- or campaign staffer, absent prior written approval of the attorney general, through the deputy attorney general. trump attorney general bill barr established that new rule, in february 2020, no investigating any declared candidate for president, or anybody working for that candidate, unless i personally give my permission. that new rule was established by bill barr, when he was working for donald trump. merric

that new rule was established bi bill barr. when he was working for donald trump. merrick garland has just formally extended that guidance and told every employee of the justice department that it is still in effect. notice went out in late may. we are reporting the memo here, making it publicly available for the first time. well, what happened in the meantime since then, since the guidance went out from merrick garland to every justice department employee, telling them that the bill barr advice is still in effect, and any investigation, including the opening of any investigation, that applies to a candidate for president, or anybody working for a candidate for president, that hasyb to get his personal sign-off, what has happened since late may, when this went out? well, formersinc president dona trump has had the delightful experience of the january 6th investigation essentially rolling out a realtime prime time criminal referral of him to the justice department. justice department, which is poking along with its own cases at its own pace, may be more interested i

that new rule was established by bill barr when he was working for donald trump. merrick garland has just formally extendeds that guidan and told every employee at the justice department that it is stillnt in effect. notice went out in late may, we are reporting it here for the first time. what's happened meantime since that guidance went out from merrick garland to every justice department employee telling them that theti bill barr advice is still in effect and any investigation, including the openingd of any investigation that applies to a candidate for president or anybody working for a candidate for president that has to getng his personal signo. what has happened since late may when this went h out? well, former president donald trump has had the delightful experience of the january 6th investigation essentially out a realtime prime time criminal referral of him to the justice department. justice department, which is poking along with his own cases at its own pace, may be more interested in the fake electors maybe just cally, spending a lot of time watching t

his assertion was also bolstered by attorney general bill barr. bill barr and pat cipollone both said in testimony aired today that they heard from the chief of staff mark meadows that he knew trump had lost, that he knew trump would have to find a way to concede. then this last thing i'm going to play for a second. this past mostly an remarked on today given all the other revelations from the committee. but when it comes to mark meadows, it seems very important. when it comes to mark meadows, we also today got a brand-new brand-new previously unreleased assertion from his aide cassidy hutchinson, about what mark meadows did around this time and why he did it. we don't know why he held this piece of cassidy hutchinson testimony until today. we've heard so much from her in previous hearings, but it is possible that the investigators from the january six committee have held this back until today because it's so bad for mark meadows, because they're continuing a legal battle with mark meadows to try to get him to testify to their investigation. this

. >> sure, first of all the reality was the headline was that mayor garland extends bill barr's rule on prosecuting presidential candidates and anything bill barr is saying that anything mayor garland is expanding that bill barr did, i am sure i get why would freak about, it freaks me out if mayor garland was going to follow bill barr's rule on changing the hours and the doj commissaries like how will that help republicans and donald trump? that is what we have been through and i think was the fact that he literally was mayor garland, extending the bill barr rule. and all the rule says is that russia so you cannot investigate in the presidential candidate. simply says, you need the approval of the attorney general in writing before you do it. as a practical matter, you think the doj was going to allow investigations into ex president, the first one ever without having mayor garland revolve than it? of course we are going to. everybody calm down, if merritt garland has the evidence in the, facts the fortitude, he could is the investigate donald trump. no prohibition the bobo. >> every

when bill barr was leaving his position, all the media made a big deal of him saying there was no need for a special counsel to look into hunter biden. but now he comes out and says, what is warranted at this point because change in circumstance. he speaks very purposefully when he does, and yet there is no discussion that has been spurred by that. so that's a great question for the current attorney general. >> jason: yeah, they need to answer that question. miranda, i want to get into the biden's business relationship with former clinton fbi director louie fried. here's an e-mail obtained by the daily mail that he said to hunter in 2016. i would be delighted to do future work with you. i also spoke to dad, presumably joe biden, a few weeks ago and would like to explore some future work options. then, less than a year later, he wrote to hunter, quote, you know, our family foundation made a $100,000 contribution to haley's children's trust last year. now that would be to the president's grandchildren. so, miranda, i mean, louie fried gets business out of romania because of the biden con

. >> i want to start by asking, about matt morgan, bill barr, and all of that. there is no evidence of election fraud issues. >> yes, i agree with that. >> mr. cipollone also specifically testify that he believed donald trump should have conceded the election. >> did you believe, mr. cipollone, that the president should concede once you office and the doj finisher investigations and found that the president should concede the election a loss at a certain point after the election? >> well, again, i was the white house counsel. some of those decisions are political. so, the extent that, but, if your question is did i believe that he should concede the election at a point in time? yes, i did. i believe later mcconnell said in late summer that the process is done and that would be in line with my thinking on these things. >> as attorney general bill barr testified, december 14th should have been the end of the matter. >> december 14th was the day that the stakes certified their votes and sent them to congress. and my opinion that was the end of the matter. i thought

. >> i want to start by asking you to read the conclusions, bill barr and individuals who evaluate the claim, no evidence -- >> yes, i agree with that. >> and mr. cipollone also specifically testified he believed donald trump should have conceded the election. >> did you believe that mr. cipollone, the president should concede once you made determination based on the investigations that you credited, d.o.j. did, did you in your mind form the belief the president should concede the election loss at some point after the election? >> well, again, i was the white house counsel, some of those decisions are political, so to the extent that, but if your question is, did i believe he should concede the election at a point in time, yes, i did. i believe leader mcconnell went on to the floor of the senate in december, and said the process was done, that that would be my thinking on these things. >> as attorney general bill barr testified, december 14th should have been the end of the matter. >> december 14th was the day that the state certified their votes and sent them to congress, and in my vi

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what meadows does is he breaks bad -- somewhere between all the fraud were bill barr's words bullshit let's stay in power for more years medals breaks bad. >> i've said this before at this very table but i have to say it again. there is this weird suspension of disbelief guilelessness to all of this. do eugene scalia, usually a pretty smart guy, secretary of labor like, he is like very, well i told him on december 14th that was the end of the process. it's all garbage! it's all made up! [laughs] please call on me, everybody constantly having to indulge this -- on december 14th -- it was done, he lost! a ludicrous set of all these people -- bill barr, eugene scalia taking it seriously, for cassidy hutchinson just saying what's the fraud thing didn't work out -- it's about keeping him in office. obviously! didn't they have to know? that >> there were never real arguments. >> and whenever real arguments are real factual predicaments to all of this. we've had so much testimony, i think it's all truthful testimony to the mountains of labor that is churning for the five weeks after. >> it's

what meadows does is he breaks bad -- somewhere between all the fraud were bill barr's words bullshit let's stay in power for more years meadows breaks bad. >> i've said this before at this very table but i have to say it again. there is this weird suspension of disbelief guilelessness to all of this. to eugene scalia, usually a pretty smart guy, secretary of labor like, he is like very, well i told him on december 14th that was the end of the process. it's all garbage! it's all made up! [laughs] please call on me, everybody constantly having to indulge this -- on december 14th -- it was done, he lost! a ludicrous set of all these people -- bill barr, eugene scalia taking it seriously, for cassidy hutchinson just saying once the fraud thing didn't work out -- it's about keeping him in office. obviously! didn't they have to know? >> there were never real arguments. >> and whenever real arguments are real factual predicaments to all of this. we've had so much testimony, i think it's all truthful testimony to the mountains of labor that is churning for the five weeks afterwards. >> it's

so we have heard versions of this before, but bill barr's version is not only perfect, the other thing about the netflix special aired something like three weeks ago, or at least that's when it premiered, normally when they post a clip on social media this would become news, but what makes him great is he is like dave chappelle or chris walk unpredictable, and apologetic. he is an equal opportunity offender. and is also available for abortion in the population control, you'll see the calls for him to be canceled and netflix to take the show down off of the streaming platform, but like we saw any attempts to cancel these guys were carry out boycotts that really aren't real on twitter, they only get bigger. are they only get stronger and the only become more unstoppable. in the end, comedy is about not agreeing with every joke. it's not about conformity, it's about laughing and having a good time. and if an analogy or a topic is too sensitive for you there's a good chance that you were born without a sense of humor, jesse. be on what if i went on stage and had a lot of material about med

talk a bit about bill barr's role in the final couple of months. the book reports instances in which barr was also a break or a buffer, keeping the president from perhaps doing crazy things. the question is was this about preserving and restoring his own reputation? was it about in some way to protect the institution of the justice department and in the proper role of the executive branch or what can you tell us about bill barr? >> very interesting personality and certainly he wants to leave and he left the trump administration with his reputation intact with some people, not with others. what we found was interesting about barr was that he would have private meetings with trump and in the middle of last year, the election year you went to trump and he said i traveled the country. i've seen more people out there. i see your supporters and you have incredible support they are but mister president, i need to tell you that your supporters think you are and acting acyl. sorry i should have made that a whole. >> that depends what it is. >> bob woodward

barr, a very good ally to pat cipollone was bill barr. they were in lockstep about what the former president was doing. so the committee has clearly gotten a lot of information about how the most senior white house adviser you can imagine other than the chief of staff felt about the legality and the appropriateness and the factual basis for the president's bonkers plan and it took many forms. what i will be watching for is how much did pat cipollone share about what he told the president because my understanding is that many times in this eight-hour interview he cited executive privilege about what he advised or told the president. keep in mind another thing we all should be watching for in this hydraheaded nightmare is the effort to seize the voting machines. cipollone had a window into three different ways the president considered seizing the machines. cipollone had a front-row seat to a meeting that led ultimately -- let me retract, the meeting that ultimately ended with sending a tweet in the middle of the o dark 30 hours come to wash

especially bill barr, he just looked for people who would tell him what he wanted to hear. and then what today showed was that when he didn't get those people to help him, he turned to the people he knew would listen, his twitter followers, oath keepers. >> just to underline what we're seeing now, we're seeing, if you put the pictures back up, we're seeing images of some of the police officers that have already testified and specifically the one in the middle there, sergeant acalino. staff sergeant, a former u.s. army sergeant, iraq war veteran, who was so gravely wounded defending the capitol on that day that as was announced by the co-chair of today's hearing, congressman jamie raskin of maryland, he has to retire from the capitol police because of the wounds he sustained and big emotional moment for staff sergeant ginel. you saw sheila jackson lee approach him just then and give him a hug. sorry to interrupt. obviously, this was also something we can't ignore, because -- >> it's the reality. it's the real one of the many, many real life implications of what happened, whi

. >> and then there's bill barr. you think he was surprisingly one of the most scathing witnesses to testify, really against trump in his depositions and his testimony to the committee. what did the public learn from him? >> bill barr was such a stalwart trump supporter. he did a lot to damage the rule of law in the name of helping trump, and so to see him turn on trump , when he was finished with trump, he was finished. to say in very blunt terms what trump was peddling in terms of the election lies was bs and to say it to his face, it does more than just give us a piece of evidence that the president was told this at a critical time. it tells us what bill barr thought about all of this. you have to hope that republicans out there, supporters of the president, see this former loyalist saying there is nothing here, guys. this was completely bogus, and that resonates a little bit. >> and even before january 6th this was being said, of course. you also point to cassidy hutchinson's testimony in general. i want to play

barr, you lost the election, pat cipollone you lost the election, ivanka, i believe bill barr, you lost the election. everybody in and around him was telling him the same thing. you can't go after mike pence, he doesn't have the authority. you can't go after the state representatives because they've done the recounts, and the recounts show you don't have the votes. you can't do it. you can't pressure the doj, if you install jeffrey clark, we're all going to resign. you can't do this. sidney powell comes in and says we're going to do an executive order, he decides not to do that i guess. doesn't totally follow through with it, and then he moves on to the next thing, which is i'm going to look at january 6th. and january 6th is the day they're going to certify the election. i'm going to send out a tweet and get people to go to my rally. >> to pressure pence. >> the question is did he know they would then march to the capitol, seems like yes from what we're seeing and did he know what they would do when we marched to the capitol? did he understand one plus one equals two? >> i think after

bill barr [inaudible] all of the individuals. no evidence of election fraud [inaudible] to undermine -- >> yes i agree with that. >> meadows had caught up with me, and leaving the office, and caught up with me, and said, that -- he said look -- i think that he's become more realistic, and knows that there is a limit to how far he can take this. and jarred said, yeah we are working on this. we are working on it. >> did that affect your planning or realization? as to whether or not there was going to be an end of this administration? >> i think so, i think it was my sentiment, probably prior as well. >> miss cheney said today, trump is no child, he had the right information, and he chose to lie. >> i think that's true, that's clear from the evidence they presented. the people who he brought into that room to discuss where to go next. were people he knew we're going to agree with his plot to overturn the election. he had actually kind of systematically removed himself from all the people who were going to tell him the truth. interes

can't tell you where they are. >> barr was investigating. >> bill barr issued a memo that told prosecutors around the country that they could take overt steps to look into allegations of fraud. this is something the department traditionally didn't do until the votes were certified. it was absolutely seen as putting pressure on prosecutors around the country to at least say publicly or have signs that they were investigating voter fraud. bill barr was looking for it. and the truth was that it just wasn't there. and he eventually came to realize that. >> in an interview with the associated press, barr publicly contradicted trump's baseless assertions saying, quote, to date we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election. >> the president is furious. he calls barr over to meet with him and the two of them get into a shouting match. >> barr told trump they had looked into these things trump was asking about and there was nothing there, and trump got very agitated. and barr kept saying this is not real, sir. and at one point barr described giuliani

here's bill barr testifying in his deposition to mark meadows and jared kushner's knowledge that it was over. >> i said, how long -- how long is he going to carry on with this stolen election stuff? where is this going to go? and by that time meadows had caught up with me and leaving the office and caught up to me and said that -- he said, look, i think that he's becoming more realistic and knows there's a limit to how far he can take this. jared said we're working on this. we're working on it. >> this is so important because somewhere along the line the plan changes, right? somewhere along the line meadows isn't working on it at all, as cassidy hutchinson testified to, meadows switches from thinking there's anything to the fraud claims to thinking he's going to go with the constitutional loophole plot by john eastman. >> i'm so glad you focus in on this moment, nicole, because when katie was making her very good point about essentially is the department of justice, are the institutions of our country strong enough to protect our democracy and to protect us from a president who decides

the american people in our hearings have heard from bill barr, jeff rosen, richard donahue, and many others who stood up and did what is right. and they will hear more of that testimony soon. but the american people have not yet heard from mr. trump's former white house counsel. our committee is certain that donald trump does not want him to testify here. indeed, our evidence shows that he and his office tried to do what was right. they tried to stop a number of president trump's plans for january 6th. today and in our coming hearings, you will hear testimony from other trump white house staff, explaining what he said and did, including on january 6th. we think the american people deserve to hear from him personally. he should appear in front of this committee and we are working to secure his testimony. thank you mister chairman, i yield back. >> people answer the call to public service in such different ways. some run for office. some volunteer to make sure their neighbors can get to their voting locations. some work at polling sites to help election day go smoothly. some look into

that new rule was established by bill barr. when he was working for donald trump. merrick garland has formally extended that guidance and told every employee of the justice department that it is still in effect. >> this garland memo reaffirmed suspicions and concerns of a lot of people. up to and including, clearly, members of the january six committee, that the select committee is essentially the only game in town. it may weigh -- well be the only entity approaching the investigation into what happened on january 6th with the kind of durable ferocity needed to save american democracy. and many are worried, and this is been a recurring might've critique from adam schiff and others, understandably so, that will continue to be the case in the foreseeable future. certainly between now and when americans make their very faithful decision in the midterms. asha rangappa is a former fbi special agent -- also an editor of the justice security block. asha, first, i want to get your thoughts on the memo. and it's important or significant. >> yeah, so, chris, i think merrick

and the difference between him and bill barr is he still has an active law practice. he's trying to do this dance that republicans do. they don't want to take donald trump on directly, and that's what the negotiation is probably is about with the committee now e. dnow. he doesn't want video of him played attacking trump. an audio is better, a written transcript is best of all. those are the kinds of things being negotiated and i think he will cut a deal. >> you know, john, what's:to me is this is, of course, in certain republican circles, right, and conservative media, this is being portrayed as a democratic witch-hunt. i find it surprising that these people have hidden as democrats their entire lives, to come out, to wait for these moment -- these interest all republicans, by the way. i'm being facetious here. they waited their entire life to come out as democrats. they've been conservative the whole time pretending just to go up against this one president. do you see what i'm saying, it's ridiculous? >> i do. i do. i do. there are witches, don. and i think some of t

it after bill barr concludes there is no widespread fraud in the election. and he is there on january 6th when donald trump is in the oval office in the dining room and cipollone and others come in to tell him to try to call off the mob as they are storming the building, and donald trump refuses. according to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, the white house aide that we all saw testify last week that he was there when donald trump said that he was accepting of the mobs endorsement of hanging mike pence, that he thought they had the right idea. there may be other things that we don't even know about. i'm just saying what i know. pat cipollone would have had access to multiple other conversations that have not yet been reported. so his testimony could potentially be very explosive for the committee. >> what's your sense of when we're gonna find out about his testimony and when we're going to actually see any of it? >> well, we are going to do our best to get it leaked as soon as he testifies tomorrow. i don't know if we can guarantee that or not. they've been p

it after bill barr concludes there is no widespread fraud in the election. and is there on january 6th when donald trump is in the oval office in the dining room and cipollone and others come in to tell him to try to call off the mob as they are storming the building, and donald trump refuses. according to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, the white house say that we all saw testify last week that he was there when donald trump said that he was accepting of the mobs endorsement of hanging like pants, that he thought they had the right idea. there may be other things that we don't even know about. i'm just saying what i know. pat cipollone would have had access to multiple other conversations that have not yet been reported. so his testimony could potentially be very explosive for the committee. >> what's your sense of when we're gonna find out about his testimony and when we're going to actually see any of it? >> well, we are going to do our best to get it leaked as soon as he testifies tomorrow. i don't know if we can guarantee that or not. they've been prett

as trump campaign manager bill stepien put, it there is team normal, like pat cipollone and bill barr, and then there was team not normal. made up of people like rudy giuliani, sydney powell, mike flynn, and the overstock guy. we heard the same derision from pat cipollone yesterday, when he derives -- the ragtag group of coup plotters, who made their way to the white house for an unscheduled meeting in the residence in december of 2020. >> i opened the door, and i walked in, i saw general flynn, sydney powell sitting there. i was not happy to see the people who are in the oval office. >> explain why. >> well, again, i don't think they were providing -- well, first of all, the overstock person, i've never met, i never knew who this guy was. actually, the first thing i did, i walked in, i looked at him, and i said, who are you? he told me. i don't think any of these people were providing the president with good advice. >> cipollone was equally scornful about the pro coup teams plan, to have the federal government seize voting machines. >> it's a terrible idea. that's not how we do thing

accepts it after bill barr concludes there is no widespread fraud in the election. and he's there on january 6th, when donald trump is in the oval office, in the dining room, and cipollone and others go in to others to tell him to call off the mob as they're storming the building and donald trump refuses. and accordingre to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, the white house aide thatin we all w testify last week, that he was there when donald trump said that he was accepting of the mob's endorsement of hanging mike pence, that he thought they had themo right idea. so, and there may be other things that we don't even know about. i'm just saying what i know. pat citizen would have had accessg to multiple other conversations that have not yet been reported. so his testimony could potentially be very explosive for the committee. >> what's your sense of when we're going to find out about his testimony and whether we're going to actually see any of it? >> well, we're going to do our best to get a lead. as soon as he testifies tomorrow, i don't know if we can guarantee and we

so much as a desire after -- honestly, terrible leadership by bill barr. look, i'm glad bill barr finally found the light. he crossed a lot of lines before he got there. including intervening criminal cases to reduce roger stone's sentence. to make michael flynn's case go away completely. the doj should restore the department to avoid controversy. i think if they take that too far, the desire to avoid controversy, and they somehow immunize the former president because it would be controversial to investigate a former president, that's a political decision. that's a very dangerous one. >> i think you put it very well. >> thank you. i think that if the attorney general is going to follow the evidence where it leads, we have artie seen evidence leading to the former president. i don't think that you can simply wait until you exhaust all of the investigations of those that attacked the capitol that day. there were multiple lines of effort to overturn the election. the multiple lines need to be investigated. they don't necessarily start out with the people on t

guest: i would be honored to testify before the united states congress in a way people like bill barr and the way people of the trump administration have done because we do have both. adam kinzinger said oath's matter and integrity matters. i couldn't agree with him or. the big difference, i think sean identifies, those between a court of law that could take your liberty away and put you in jail. that is where you have the high due process protections of cross-examination. this is about educating the public and deciding whether to pass new legislation. the implications of what is happening in our dress is very different from a court of law. that is not an apt critique of what is happening. host: melissa in las vegas, independent. caller: i believe [indiscernible] . host: why though? ok. brian in quincy, michigan. caller: hello, good morning. trump cult numbers are not watching the january 6 hearings. they could care less about truth or facts. there truth is whatever comes out of term's mouth. ru

bill barr and others were there. were they not tough enough. >> do you think bill barr is such a delicate flower. >> yes. >> they have also tried to paint a narrative that courageous young american republican women are coming forward and these 50, 60, and 70 year old men are hiding. >> it's the truth. the defense could be donald trump took actions x, y, z. but had you this tweet go out during this going on, chairman said, this is all here say. say. that's not true. it's a lie. it's direct testimony of those involved. what is more important is this is a tactic leading to january 6th. when something serious goes on you divert the attention by saying something not true. this is a live issue of democracy for the country this. is not the past. this is about deploying inception of the past to make people look away from a serious moment. the president of the united states not doing his job. >> threatening them, threatening the safety of these people coming forward to testify in the case of furthering a understanding of what

be transcribed we have already seen how the hearings have gone where prior videotaped testimony from bill barr, evocative trump and the like and those people that appear in person, it is played and it is broadcast at these hearings. do you think the same thing will happen here or is there some chance that part of those negotiations it was look, you can videotape me or transcribe me but you can't play it, is there a world where that agreement would've been made? >> i would be really surprised if the committee would've agreed to it in fact i think the fact that this interview is occurring before the next hearing is a sign that the committee really wanted to get this done on videotape so it could potentially use clips from that interview in the next hearing or maybe the one after that so i think the american people will see at least some excerpts of pat cipollone. >> that is important to me as a prosecutor i want to see someone's body language and see how reluctant he is to actually give an answer because whatever comes after that the answer you give after having your teeth pulled essentiall

get bill barr down here, put him on the situation, et cetera. >> got a call from mark meadows saying let's kill this narrative that pence is in charge, the president is still in your. this is just hours after he has been pushed down the stairs into the secure bunker area and he came up out of that bunker that we are going to get the thing done tonight and they finished it at 3:00 in the money, was able to pull it all together after that very harrowing experience, and make sure that they certified that four. >> one of the most dramatic videos as they exit the air as the protesters are confronting the police officers and secret service is getting very worried about getting the vice president, not only for you but our security. >> shannon: talking about it now or never, we have to make a decision about whether going to get out of your. this is so much about 2024 and we will cover the president, we know the resident, meaning the former president comment about whether we can money on, i almost feel like these earrings are kind of wrapping up, like i have to come back and vindicate himself

he said that to bill barr. bill barr said he told me. you know trump will come around because he understands that he lost. meadows knew. that pence didn't have the authority to do anything but count the votes. that is from -- marc short's testimony from the dynamics committee. meadows has a lot of criminal exposure from these very quick crimes. the justice department can say to him, we will strike a deal with you. you flip and cooperate with us. or we can even provide you immunity. and you cooperate with us. and give us everything you know about president trump. the principal on all of these guns. >> and how significant is it in your view, that to penn state, marc short and greg jp had recently testified to a grand jury, to a high is how white house officials to do so? >> i think it's incredibly significant. it means the investigators are going straight into the white house. calling to the wall street journal's reporting and cooperated now with the washington post, the questions the prosecutors are asking and asked specifically jacob and

also, senior lino analyst, his book is hatchet man how bill barr broke the code and four of the justice department. and our senior law enforcement, and you caid, he's former deputy director and he's the author of the threat and how the fbi protects america and the age of terror and trump. so, prolific authors and experts here in great minds. good evening gentlemen. i hope you played the lottery, good luck now let's talk andrew i want to start with the cnn federal prosecutors preparing to go to court with trump officials to testify about what he was saying and doing or not doing around january six. this is a clear sign that the doj is zeroing on the former president? or, is this part of a broader investigation that just happen to have questions about the former president built into all of this? >> now, don it's absolutely a sign that they're zeroing on the former president but not just on the former, president on the former president and all those folks who may have been working around, him with him, for him and advising him. and, who may have played a role in this potential conspiracy t

he said that to bill barr. bill barr said he told me. you know trump will come around because he understands that he lost. meadows knew. that pence didn't have the authority to do anything but count the votes. that is from marc short's testimony from the january 6th committee. meadows has a lot of criminal exposure from these very quick crimes. the justice department can say to him, we will strike a deal with you. you flip and cooperate with us. or we can even provide you immunity. and you cooperate with us. and give us everything you know about president trump. the principal on all of these guns. >> and how significant is it in your view, that to penn state, marc short and greg jacob had recently testified to a grand jury, to a high is how white house officials to do so? >> i think it's incredibly significant. it means the investigators are going straight into the white house. calling to the wall street journal's reporting and cooberated now with the washington post, the questions the prosecutors are asking and asked specifically jacob

bill barr and so many others have rejected this time and time again. but unfortunately kari lake, kelly ward, and their ilk, they continue to push this forward, and, look, rusty bowers is a friend. he's a good man, and he's a good conservative. he's accomplished so much in the arizona legislature, and to censure him is absurd, that's not what the arizona republican party should be doing. they should be staying out of primary elections, and then whoever wins that primary, supporting them. but kelly ward and her team, they're getting involved in the middle of these primary elections. it's wrong, and it needs to stop. >> last quick one for you, we learned from the wisconsin speaker of the assembly there that just -- and within the last week, former president trump reached out to urge him to de-certify the 2020 election, have you, anyone on the board, anyone you know there in the state been pressured by the former president or his allies recently? >> well, yeah, not recently, no. back in late 2020, you know, president trump tried to contact our chairman of

that former president trump wanted for bill barr to pursue. his audit year was 2017, which was when he had a lucrative book deal. mccabe found out he was being audited in 2021, but it was his 2019 tax return and he found out right after he was cleared, his personnel record was cleared, and his pension was reinstated. are those things that just could be coincidence or does that raise questions for you that the ig should be looking at? >> well, as i say, it -- as i said in the past, you can have a strange event once, to have it twice in this case with two different individuals in a random process certainly seems to me worth looking at. i got great confidence in the agency. it is a criminal violation to target a taxpayer or do anything with the tax payer's return other than normal course of business. so this would be something truly extraordinary and out of the ordinary. i think it is important for the ig to look at it just to ensure that the process ran as normal and this is one of those rare unique circumstances that occurs, you know, in variou

just looking at the itinerary of witnesses who we have seen testify publicly, bill barr is going to have important information, he is a willing participant. we've seen the trump campaign individuals who appeared before congress, they are likely to be brought in. and anyone who can establish that donald trump knew he had lost the election, he knew there was no legal basis for these phoney electors and yet he attacked nonetheless, culminating in that horrible violence and calling out the vice president. that is the single most unforgivable thing to me, the 2:24 tweet. so those witnesses are the ones doj is likely calling? >> look, i think one of the things very clear from the january 6th commission is every single republican administration official under oath said they knew the election was free and fair and many told donald trump. what's significant about maggie's reporting and the emails pulled out is many of the people scheming with these fake electors knew they were fake. >> what's the tip? that they used the word fake? >> exactly. >> when they write fake -- >> that's the tell. >> not

barr, there was no widespread evidence of voter fraud. and said he believes the president having lost virtually every legal challenge, should have conceded before january 6th >> i believe he should concede the election at one point in time, yes, i did i believe leader mcconnell, i believe in mid december and basically said, you know, the process is done that would be in line with my thinking on these things >> reporter: he said the former chief of staff mark meadows agreed with him. the committee arguing it all came to a head at a heated december 18th meeting in the white house. cipollone and other white house staff walking in to confront outside supporters including attorney sidney powell who was still insisting to president trump there was election fraud >> there were people shouting at each other, throwing insults at each other. >> we're asking one simple question. as a general matter. where is the evidence? >> what response did you get? >> i would say the general disregard of backing it up. >> i would have fired all of them that night