and what did donald trump do? he grabbed a bag of popcorn and start watching tv, instead of doing would any reasonable commander-in-chief would've done. it's devastating. >> barry, a lot of people are asking, what should the prosecutors be doing. let me phrase it a different way. you have experience as a defense attorney. and i'm imagining -- imagine a world in which donald trump had a really good criminal defense attorney which, so far, we haven't seen that -- but if he did, would that criminal defense attorney be telling donald trump are his possible criminal liabilities in the testimony that was delivered last night? >> i think a good criminal defense lawyer would tell him, mr. client, you are in big trouble, mr. president. you have seen a case that is very simple for them to prove. a lot of people want to talk about whether it's seditious conspiracy. prosecutors really charged the hardest crime to prove. all they have to show is a significant crime, interfering with congress's certification of the vote, an off

well donald trump is now in a fight with 9/11 families. as only donald trump can be. donald trump once told the lie that i immediately exposed, which made him immediately tell him to make him stop telling the lie, that he lost hundreds of friends on 9/11. that is possibly the most grotesque lie donald trump has ever told. about himself in a personal way. he lost tons of friends on 9/11. he lost zero friends, zero friends on 9/11. at the end of this hour, you're gonna hear what's 9/11 families are saying about donald trump hosting a saudi financed golf tournament at his golf club. donald trump, taking money from the saudis. and defending 9/11 families in the process. that's in the next hour. as 76 defendant donald trump looks at the final chapter of his life, he knows tonight that he is likely to spend the rest of his life as a defendant. he's already a defendant multiple times in different kinds of civil lawsuits, including, most importantly, and most dangerously, to donald trump, lawsuits brought against defendant trump by capitol police officers who are suing donald

that donald trump didn't. i think may not have understood quite the way the bargain he signed up forward. mitch mcconnell got mitch mcconnell judges, but they were mitch mcconnell judge, so they've delivered for republicans on as you say, agenda items like abortion, like guns, like regulation of the environment. but when donald trump turned to the court and said, i want you to protect my financial documents from waffle subpoenas, but the congress, the court said nothing doing your on your own. so this is one case where he didn't read the fine print and he got out maneuvered by mitch mcconnell on guns. you put the arguments time and again that people with guns are in fact less safe than those who don't have them. no one listening that do you foresee a time when people might listen and what do you think it needs to happen? what needs to happen to change people's orientation on this? i think it begins with the kinds of changes and attitude we had with things like drunk driving. the whole world is driven by these

trump in donald trump's case. look, every, everybody needs a hero and donald trump found he has invited me to put biden always says he has ukraine's back. you believe him? i think the ukraine, that it taken us a while there been some missteps. the, by much the whole democratic world has rally to be great too crazy, and this is more that can be done, especially can remember quite as a quite developed country ukraine at the same time as it is fighting a war, has to deliver pensions as operate hospital services has to keep children in school in the cities where the war is and the bandpass deal with this vast refugee diaspora. all of that cost more amounts of money while they fight a fight in which we are all at. once we are all involved, russia dismisses criticism of its ukraine invasion by talking about western hypocrisy. look what they did in iraq, 20 years ago. they say, could you not? the point doesn't have 100000 people died in iraq for a war based on 2 big lives didn't. but what kind of point is that? i excuse

i'm not gonna use the exact words that donald trump june. he used but these were the voices of reason, the present donald trump wasn't listening to his inner circle people that he should have been missing too well, it was in dalton junior's case. clearly it was because he was worried about the sort of legacy he was saying, look, the last 4 years will just be remembered for this now to that's that, that was the main motivation for him. and it didn't seem that he was as concern as, as early as we didn't see the bit way was going. this can't be happening on capitol hill. yvonne could trump again. yes. she tried to get donald trump to use the, you know, to try and get the tweaks to demonstrate to stay peaceful. but then we heard that there was a discussion amongst trump's aids about or should we say use the word peaceful is acknowledging the violence. going to give the media when a narrative about trump support is now we're not going to do that in the entropy did an action also, you know, fox news hosts republican congressional leaders. you know

so when you think about something like donald trump, it seems so political and i think donald trump has helped to polarize not only the country. but in some sense the media coverage and i when i think of this i think of people going on the air and having trouble just calling out statements that he made art that are totalized but they say, you know, the press can't say lie, new york times washington post very reluctant to even write that word when in fact, that's what the man was doing. what would you have the press do? it was cory booker lying when he said the stacy elections election was stolen again. i think the context was missing. he explained why he was making this comment. it wasn't an outright statement without any of our nation and i think president was a stolen election. well, i think that's not a lie. see, this is my point one. okay, the press the press system judgment of some mostly republicans mostly conservatives certainly populists. and says things like that. and i won't do that. i'll be fair on both sides. you know my book begins with a cnn show don lemon hosting a show w

trump, agents of donald trump, anything involving donald trump. if they commuted that they want to know about. that subpoena not, framed in your article tonight along with the information about marc short, these two grand jury witnesses who were just there, and others apparently that you are aware of who have been asked many questions about donald trump, how would you describe the level of focus on donald trump in some of the grand jury testimony? >> you know, here is a moment where i would like to say kudos to my colleagues on this byline along with me. josh ducey who covers nearly everything, spencer chu who covers the u.s. attorney's office. all of them applied into this territory for many, many days to try to unearth what these details were. what the team learned was that so much of particularly marc short's conversation with the grand jury was dominated by what did trump say, and what did trump do? what did trump tell his lawyers? then what was trump's reaction to that? that description over and over again of the grand jury prosecutor who's n

trump, agents of donald trump, anything involving donald trump. if they communicated, that they want to know about. that subpoena not, framed in your article tonight along with the information about marc short, these two grand jury witnesses who were just there, and others apparently that you are aware of who have been asked many questions about donald trump, how would you describe the level of focus on donald trump in some of the grand jury testimony? >> you know, here is a moment where i would like to say kudos to my colleagues on this byline along with me. josh ducey who covers nearly everything, spencer chu who covers the u.s. attorney's office. all of them applied into this territory for many, many days to try to unearth what these details were. what the team learned was that so much of particularly marc short's conversation with the grand jury was dominated by what did trump say, and what did trump do? what did trump tell his lawyers? then what was trump's reaction to that? that description over and over again of the grand jury prosecutor wh

donald trump considers. he's there for conversations about seizing voting machines. he's there whetehr a plan is floated to send false letters to state officials saying the doj, the justice department has found fraud and they should reconsider their election results. he's there when bill barr offered to turn in his resignation to donald trump and donald trump accepts it after bill barr concludes there is no widespread fraud in the election. and he is there on january 6th when donald trump is in the oval office in the dining room and cipollone and others come in to tell him to try to call off the mob as they are storming the building, and donald trump refuses. according to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, the white house aide that we all saw testify last week that he was there when donald trump said that he was accepting of the mobs endorsement of hanging mike pence, that he thought they had the right idea. there may be other things that we don't even know about. i'm just saying what i know. pat cipollone woul

donald trump considers. he's there for conversations about seizing voting machines. he's there was a plan is floated to send false letters to state officials saying the doj, the justice department has found fraud and they should reconsider their election results. he's there when bill barr offered to turn in his resignation to donald trump and donald trump accepts it after bill barr concludes there is no widespread fraud in the election. and is there on january 6th when donald trump is in the oval office in the dining room and cipollone and others come in to tell him to try to call off the mob as they are storming the building, and donald trump refuses. according to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, the white house say that we all saw testify last week that he was there when donald trump said that he was accepting of the mobs endorsement of hanging like pants, that he thought they had the right idea. there may be other things that we don't even know about. i'm just saying what i know. pat cipollone would have h

then donald trump announced -- the congressman from new york. then donald trump announced he did not want any investigation and then kevin mccarthy pulled the plug on that and turned against the commission they had been advocating, five republicans, five democrats, equal subpoena power. that was gone. at that point speaker pelosi said we will not sweep this under the rug. we will have a select committee in the house of representatives and at that point mccarthy brought forth the slate of people. speaker pelosi accepted a majority of them, but not those who were involved in the event, including jim jordan, who was at meetings related to january 6. at that point mccarthy said we will not include anyone at all. then speaker pelosi said we are still going to have a bipartisan committee. that is why we have bennie thompson as the chair, we have liz cheney, the chair of the republican conference on the house side, adam kinzinger who you know is a distinguished vet and is still in the service today. we have operated in a bipartisan way. you will note t

there are the people in, in the world around donald trump. donald trump does have a few great gifts, and one of them is he's got miss wolf like ability to smell weakness. if there's a corrupt, if there's corruption, if there's weakness, if there's the ability to bully, he can sense that and people and use it for his own purposes. and he also saw that there are some inherent weaknesses in the american political system that we had not suspected before. but he, he said maybe in a sub rational way where he's got the bullies instinct for the person to target. and he wasn't above threatening and intimidating people as best he could. and using pardons as a means of basically undermining investigations into those around him. you know, the pressure in the constitution, the president inherited the kind of kingly, pardon, power, that the british kings used to have. but in modern times, this power has been kind of regularized precedence before trump did not pardon people at whim. they were, they delegated it to a committee that made recommendations, and then presence would do pardons, typically

the white house counsel is donald trump's top lawyer. we know he was a witness to so many of the things that donald trump did. in his testimony already before the congress that cipollone thought the trump was in danger of getting indicted for every crime in the book. if you want to know how serious this is, i think we can just take a look lawrence at donald trump's reaction to the thought that his top lawyer is going and testifying before congress tomorrow. trump issued a statement that really was kind of a rare soft touch. this is totally not trumpian. it didn't undermine cipollone's credibility, he didn't call him sully names like whatever donald trump would normally do. that's trump think that he does when he scared. with cipollone, he is terrified. so what he is doing is kind of buttering up cipollone and talking about privilege and this is not hoping cipollone will assert executive privilege, assert attorney client privilege and as you say, there's not a with of privilege about this stuff. this was a sure loser and every court where

donald trump cares about donald trump, and the other variable that we have to think about here is donald trump's calculation about an early announcement for support that it is what in his mind thinks will prevent that indictment from coming down, so when you add that element of an early announcement as a trump legal strategy to lower the pressure that he knows is coming his way, it becomes all of the more desperate an action and all of the more demanding of total loyalty from anyone in the republican party and god forbid the republican that does not show that loyalty and kiss that ring because trump will come after them. ron desantis, by the way, knows that better than anyone. >> thank you both for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >>> up next, breaking news from "the washington post" that the justice department is investigating donald trump's actions as part of its criminal probe of the 2020 election. more on that when we come back. probe of the 202 it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. more on that when we come back a

trump in donald trump's case. look, every, everybody needs a hero and donald trump found he has been fly to ripple. biden always says he has ukraine's back. you believe him? i think the ukraine, that it taken us a while there been some missteps. the violence, the whole democratic world has as rally to be great to crane, and this is more that can be done, especially economically, remember quite as a quite developed country ukraine at the same time as it is fighting a war, has to deliver pensions as operate hospital services has to keep children in school in the cities where the war is and a bandpass to deal with this vast refugee diaspora. all of that cost enormous amounts of money while they fight a fight in which we are all at. once we are all involved, russia dismisses criticism of its ukraine invasion by talking about western hypocrisy. look what they did in iraq, 20 years ago. they say, put, you know, the point doesn't have 100000 people died in iraq for a war based on 2 big lives didn't. but what kind of poin

they are the people in the world around donald trump. donald trump does have a few great gifts, and one of them is he's got miss wolf like ability to smell weakness. if there's a corrupt, if there's corruption, if there's weakness, if there's the ability to bully, he can sense that and people and use it for his own purposes. and he also saw that there are some inherent weaknesses in the american political system that we had not suspected before. but he, he said maybe in a sub rational way, where he's got the bullies instinct for the person to target. and he wasn't above threatening and intimidating people as best he could. and using pardons as a means of basically undermining investigations into those around him. you know, the pressure in the constitution, the president inherited the kind of kingly, pardon, power, that the british kings used to have. but in modern times, this power has been kind of regularized precedence before trump did not pardon people at whim. they were, they delegated it to a committee that made recommendations, and then presence would do pardons, typically in big

to donald trump. so we know that james marie is a trump guy in every sense important to donald trump or donald trump would not have promoted him. to director of the secret service. in april of 2019, all of the democratic candidate for president had announced their candidacies and pullen show donald trump running far behind joe biden with joe biden at 51, and donald trump at 42. donald trump knew just like 2016, there was absolutely no way he was going to win more votes than the democrats. donald trump knew he was going to come in second with the voters, and his only hope was the electoral college, and this time, donald trump didn't want to take his chances with the electoral college. if it came to it, donald trump was obviously willing to try to change the outcome of the election electoral college, and it is exactly what he did, and that is what he was still trying to do on january six. cassidy hutchinson testified that tony ornato told her, in the white house, that donald trump tried to go to the cap

to donald trump. so we know that james murray is a trump guy in every sense important to donald trump or donald trump would not have promoted him. to director of the secret service. in april of 2019, all of the democratic candidates for president had announced their candidacies and polling showed donald trump running far behind joe biden with joe biden at 51, and donald trump at 42. donald trump knew just like 2016, there was absolutely no way he was going to win more votes than the democrats. donald trump knew he was going to come in second with the voters, and his only hope was the electoral college, and this time, donald trump didn't want to take his chances with the electoral college. if it came to it, donald trump was obviously willing to try to change the outcome of the electoral college, and that is exactly what he did, and that is what he was still trying to do on january six. cassidy hutchinson testified that tony ornato told her, in the white house, that donald trump tried to go to the capit

yeah, i absolutely, i believe there is already sufficient evidence to indict donald trump. i firmly believe that he will be indicted separately in georgia. we know the grand jury is meeting right now. i mean, my goodness. he is on tape. clearly intimidating, the top election official in georgia literally saying just find me the votes, the i need in order to declare me the, the winner. the irony of all his schemes, of course, is that even of one state flipped, he still wouldn't be close to the actual number that he needed. he needed at least 3 states to flip a. but, you know, for someone like donald trump, that sort of practical thinking wouldn't come into the picture and my biggest fear i wrote an op ed in the spring of 2016 about donald trump in a philadelphia newspaper. and i said, donald trump is different than any previous democrat or republican, or a wig, who came before and, and sought the presidency. because deep down, he is not a small di, democrat. he's obviously not a capital d democrat, but as i small d democrat, he does not believe in democracy. think of all of

except donald trump. but it is the people who decided to humor him, people who stayed quiet, let him cry it out as his rhetoric escalated, his lies escalated and the dangerous people he tapped in to organize, they're the reason we're all here today. take former white house counsel pat cipollone whose testimony to the january 6th select committee we heard for the very first time yesterday. >> there was a real question in my mind and a real concern, you know, particularly after the attorney general had reached the conclusion that there wasn't sufficient election fraud to change the outcome of the election. when other people kept suggesting that there was, the answer is what is the end. at some point you have to put up or shut up. that was my view. >> there was never any fraud. there was never any fraud, there was never any evidence. pat cipollone knew the president was lying and spreading those lies. he knew it was dangerous and he knew precisely what those dangers were. he would do anything, he wanted to t

you still have donald trump's base, which none of these people bring you and you voted for donald trump twice. i voted for him none. i want donald trump and his element to be indicted. i think this now is on merrick garland and while that is the shift from republicans and democrats because democrats now want merrick garland to take action and whether or not donald trump is indicted, this are people around him -- >> scott, i want you to weigh in but first, take a listen to what republican congressman adam kinzinger had to say about that issue of criminal charges. >> we have proven different components of a criminal case against donald trump or people around him in every hearing and i think taken in totality it's the greatest effort to overturn the will of the people to conspire against the will of the people and conspire against american democracy we ever had. it's up to justice to make a decision. >> i don't know whether he will be indicted. i've always felt the georgia case was more dangerous for him because they actually had him on tape down there. so i don't know. i also think there

we knew that donald trump -- it was known donald trump did want to go to the capitol. obviously he commands the mob to go there on january 6th, but the fact that days ahead of time key rally organizers are saying this is going to be an unexpected announcement, and we can't spread this too widely. we can't let the national park police know. that added a level of sort of clandestine behavior that i think adds an extra layer onto what we already know about the way trump was acting around january 6th, that he didn't want too many of his most sober advisers to know about what he was planning to do with the crowd directing them to the capitol. that was probably my largest takeaway. obviously the implication from liz cheney that there was potential witness influencing or witness tampering going on by the former president was a major development. and we also learned a lot more information about that completely crazy december 18th meeting inside the oval office, and then i think we saw, also, donald trump's power over the crowd, about how he could command them to go to the capi

for 187 minutes on _ accuses donald trump. for 187 minutes on january _ accuses donald trump. for 187 minutes on january six, - accuses donald trump. for 187 minutes on january six, this i minutes onjanuary six, this may him and unbridled destructive energy could not be moved, not by his aides, not by his allies. moved, not by his aides, not by his allies-_ moved, not by his aides, not by his allies-— his allies. not only was the former president _ his allies. not only was the former president accused l his allies. not only was the | former president accused of sitting idly by while the violence raged, witnesses say his actions made things worse. i think that in that moment for him to tweet out the message about mike pence, it was him pouring gasoline on the fire. hopes of a deal between ukraine, russia and turkey to

donald trump twice. i voted for him none. i also want donald trump and his element to be indicted. i think that this now is on merrick garland and while that is the shift from republicans and democrats because democrats now want merrick garland to take action. and whether or not donald trump is indicted, this are people around him who should. >> scott, i want you to weigh in but first, take a listen to what republican congressman adam kinzinger had to say about that issue of criminal charges. he is another member of the committee. >> we have proven different components of a criminal case against donald trump or people around him in every hearing and i think taken in totality this represent s the greatest effort to overturn the will of the people to conspire against the will of the people and conspire against american democracy we ever had. it's up to justice now to make a decision. >> i don't know whether he will be indicted. i've always felt the georgia i've always felt the georgia case was actually mor

i'm wondering who is willingo go to for donald trump. >> in a statement -- >> donald trump may end up go to jail. who in the secret service wants to go to jail? >> a spokesman claims some of the data that was lost during a pre-planned devicement program that began on -- >> whatever. >> -- january 2021, before the dhs probe into the insurrection even began. he also notes, the secret service has been fully cooperative with the dhs investigation. >> but hold on. let's take that down because it is nonsense. he -- >> unless -- i wonder who ordered that, if it happened. >> the inspector general ordered copies of those text messages and said they deleted them after the inspector general ordered them. so secret service wants us to believe the inspector general's lie. somebody is lying. somebody needs to be hauled before congress to testify. >> it seems like a huge stretch at best. >> let's bring in nbc news correspondent julia ainsley. she covers the department of justice and the department of homeland security. julia, help us out here. we heard many reports that donald trump politicized the

launch a criminal investigation, of donald trump. the leaking from the grand jury, almost never comes from the investigators or the grand jurors, but it usually does come from the witnesses themselves, who have every legal right to reveal publicly everything that happened in a grand jury room or the leaking comes from lawyers for the witnesses or associates of lawyers for the witnesses or friends of lawyers for the witnesses. when prominent people in washington d. c. like marc short testified to the grand jury it's in virtually impossible for that to remain secret the other way we will get strong indicators of the progress of the federal criminal investigation of donald trump, or court filings by the justice department. and so we learned today that federal investigators obtained a second search warrant to look at the contents of the phone of john eastman, the trump attorney who advocated using fake electors to the electoral college, to fraudulently overturn the presidential election. a court filing today by the justice department say

the guy at the bus, the big guy, donald trump. you worked for donald trump. the most serial liar to ever occupy the oval office. the most pathological liar that i have ever covered in 20 years of journalism. and the people assembled in that room together on january 17th, where there to overturn american democracy and declare himself essentially president for life, and keep himself in power. you are either stupid, disqualified, or incompetence and you would never hold another job, my god. because donald trump was not shy about the fact that he would never accept an election loss, he was quite public about it. he said it before he took office back in 2016. do you make the same commitment that you absolutely, sir, that you will absolutely accept the results of this election? >> i will look at at the time. i'm not looking at anything, now i will look at it at the time. >> there is a tradition in this country, in fact, one of the price of this country, is the peaceful transition of power and no matter how far flooded campaign, is that the end of the campaign, that

i believe there's already sufficient evidence to indict donald trump . i firmly believe that he will be indicted separately in georgia. we know the grand jury is meeting right now. i mean, my goodness. he is on a heap. clearly intimidating the top election official in georgia. literally saying, just find me the votes. i need in order to declare me the, the winner. the irony of all his schemes, of course, is that even if one state flipped, he still wouldn't be close to the actual number that he needed. he needed at least 3 states to flip um, but you know, for someone like donald trump, that sort of practical thinking wouldn't come into the picture. and my biggest fear i wrote an op ed in the spring of 2016 about donald trump in a philadelphia newspaper. and i said, donald trump is different than any previous democrat or republican or a wig, who came before and sought the presidency. because deep down he is not a small di, democrat. he's always not a capital d democrat, but it's i small di, democrat. he does not believe in democracy. think of all of the wo

and that donald trump considers. he is there for conversations about seizing the voting machines. he's there when a plan is floatedch to send false letterso stateoa officials, saying the d.o.j. and the justice department has found fraud and they should reconsider they're election results. he's there when bill barr turned, offers to turn in his resignation to donald trump and donald trump accepts it after bill barr concludes there is no widespread fraud in the election. and he's there on january 6th, when donald trump is in the oval office, in the dining room, and cipollone and others go in to others to tell him to call off the mob as they're storming the building and donald trump refuses. and accordingre to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, the white house aide thatin we all w testify last week, that he was there when donald trump said that he was accepting of the mob's endorsement of hanging mike pence, that he thought they had themo right idea. so, and there may be other things that we don't even know about. i'm just

, i'll take donald trump? what does that tell you about where we are and what does -- what has this committee put in front of the country in such a stark, naked way that you can't turn your eyes away from and that signature moment and what the capstone of the day, walking into the residence, the sun is set, the fires are still burning up on the capitol and the president's response is damn, you know that mike pence really disappointed me. so i don't know what more clarity we need. we have his mind, the mens rea, we understand it now was i don't want it say i lost the elections. after everything we've been told, everything we know, i don't want to say that. republicans mccarthy. you told him and he's still saying i don't want to say it. so what's your response? okay. okay. we just won't talk about it, mr. president. >> yeah. >> this is where we are. we have an election coming up and people have got to look at this. >> yeah. i mean, look, pete strzok, i want to show you congressman raskin makes a similar point in

is what donald trump just did a crime? the answer is, if it falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear, it doesn't make us? and if trump commits crimes nobodies there to indict, him isn't really a crime? does it really matter? with all these things, our jonathan, are either crimes on their own, stand-alone crimes that could be brought like inciting an insurrection or obstructing an official proceeding. but everything else he has done, he did to the overall conspiracy to do fraud or defenses against the united states. and a federal judge already found them, by a preponderance of the evidence, that trump and john eastman committed together. so again, it is time for overt law enforcement action. >> yamiche, you are there on the north lawn of the white house and pebble beach. we've been talking about the silence among republicans, both to what's donald trump has done to the party but also the silence of republicans in terms of their reaction to the eight hearings on the january six select committee. there is another inter

that donald trump didn't. i think may not have understood quite the way the bargain he signed up forward. mitch mcconnell got mitch mcconnell judges, but they were mitch mcconnell, judges who have delivered for republicans on, as you say, agenda items like abortion, like guns, like regulation of the environment. but when donald trump turned to the court and said, i want you to protect my financial documents from waffle subpoenas, congress. the court said nothing doing your on your own. so this is one case where he didn't read the fine print and he got out maneuvered by mitch mcconnell on guns . you put the arguments time and again that people with guns are in fact less safe than those who don't have them. no one listening that do you foresee a time when people might listen and what do you think it needs to happen? what needs to happen to change people's orientation on this? i think it begins with the kinds of changes and attitude we had with things like drunk driving. the whole world is riveted by these horrif

there are the people in the world around donald trump. donald trump does have a few great gifts, and one of them is he's got miss wolf like ability to smell weakness. if there's a corrupt, if there's corruption, if there's weakness, if there's the ability to bully, he can sense that and people and use it for his own purposes. and he also saw that there are some inherent weaknesses in the american political system that we had not suspected before. but he, he said maybe in a sub rational way. but he's got the bully's instinct for the person to target. and he wasn't above threatening and intimidating people as best he could. and using pardons as a means of basically undermining investigations into those around him. you know, add the pressure in the constitution, the president inherited to kind of kingly, pardon, power, that the british kings used to have. but in modern times, this power has been kind of regularized presidents before trump did not pardon people at when they were. they delegated it to a to a committee that made recommendations. and then presence would do pardons, typicall

yeah, i absolutely, i believe there is already sufficient evidence to indict donald trump. i firmly believe that he will be indicted separately in georgia. we know the grand jury is meeting right now. i mean, my goodness. he is on clearly intimidating the top election official in georgia, literally saying just find me the votes. i need in order to declare me the, the winner. the irony of all his schemes, of course, is that even if one state flipped, he still wouldn't be close to the actual number that he needed. he needed at least 3 states to flip a. but, you know, for someone like donald trump, that sort of practical thinking wouldn't come into the picture and my biggest fear i wrote an op ed in the spring of 2016 about donald trump in a philadelphia newspaper. and i said, donald trump is different than any previous democrat, or republican, or a wig, who came before and, and sought the presidency. because deep down he is not a small, di democrat, is obviously not a capital d democrat, but it's a small di, democrat. he does not believe in democracy. think of all of the worl

it doesn't necessarily depend on donald trump, but i will say, even if it's not donald trump, whoever plays that playbook, the donald trump playbook, the best, is the guy who's going to win this. it's the guy who's going to win the hearts of these people on these message boards. some of the places they talked about in, on these forms that they talked about, in these hearing today, that were filled with racial slurs and horrific stuff, talking about killing people, you know, how it's time to go all the minorities and stuff. those places are still very, very active. but they are not -- but the affinity of donald trump isn't there anymore. it's this culture going on. >> yes, but this before trump, there was never someone who was in the white house who was winking and nodding at them, right? you had a presidential debate where the sitting president said, stand back and stand by. so without someone with that kind of visibility influence in and seniority, does the movement have such power. is there is else who right now could say, come to washington, and they would? >> i don't think so. but

the guy at the bus, the big guy, donald trump. you worked for donald trump. the most serial liar to ever occupy the oval office. the most pathological liar that i have ever covered in 20 years of journalism. and the people assembled in that room together on january 17th, where there to overturn american democracy and declare himself essentially president for life, and keep himself in power. you are either stupid, disqualified, or incompetence and you would never hold because donald trump was not shy about the fact that he would never accept an election loss, he was quite public about it. he said it before he took office back in 2016. do you make the same commitment that you absolutely, sir, that you will absolutely accept the results of this election? >> i will look at at the time. i'm not looking at anything, now i will look at it at the time. >> theof power and no matter how far flooded campaign, is that the end of the campaign, that the loser can seat to the winner, not saying that you are necessarily gonna be the loser or the winner, but the loser can sei

donald trump in the second term. you have a guy that knows about oil spills, that wanted to take over the justice department. of course, we laugh about it when we heard it, but, again, this is deadly serious. it is exactly what strong men do when they take over. they get incompetent loyaltyists in their government so they end up with something like, well, russia. you have vladimir putin in power, and nobody can check him, even when he does something that is destroying his own country. >> again, showing donald trump is still very much in action on all of this. >> yeah. now, i do want to say, though, jonathan lemire, these hearings politically, i believe, have left a mark. you look at fundraising for donald trump. down significantly since the hearings began. you look at fundraising for republicans, especially the senate races. they're getting -- in key senate races, they're getting absolutely obliterated by democrats. a lot of that may have to do with the supreme court decisions. a lot of that may have to do with the m

it doesn't necessarily depend on donald trump, but i will say, even if it's not donald trump, whoever plays that playbook, the donald trump playbook, the best, is the guy who's going to win this. it's the guy who's going to win the hearts of these people on these message boards. some of the places they talked about in, on these forms that they talked about, in these hearings today, that were filled with racial slurs and horrific stuff, talking about killing people, you know, how it's time to go all the minorities and stuff. those places are still very, very active. but they are not -- >> but the affinity of donald trump isn't there anymore. it's this culture going on. >> yes, but this before trump, there was never someone who was in the white house who was nodding at them, right? you had a presidential debate where the sitting president said, stand back and stand by. so without someone with that kind of visibility influence in seniority, does the movement have such power. is there is else who right now could say, come to washington, and they would? >> i don't think so. but i don't thi

the establishment does not like donald trump, the elite doesn't want donald trump. look at all the negative coverage of donald trump. we have seemingly no ability. you know what, maybe we just have no desire to learn the lessons of the past. >> 2016, of course everyone said hillary was going to wind down to the last minute. none of the three major news networks carried donald trump's speech live. is there message there? i've been saying for weeks the press seem determined to knock out both trump and biden by saying they are growing sentiment in their parties and these polls showing that neither one should run in 2024. >> fox not covering it was more of a departure for the consistency of their coverage for donald trump. there is this other sort of shadow in the room. mike pence was the subject of timely news in the january 6 investigation. both in terms of trump knowing he was in danger and also in terms that he was taking action when trump was not on that day. as will said, he is in a very precarious position with the republican base. it is difficult for him to navi

because that is what donald trump had been telling them, so, what donald trump was required to do in that moment, what would have been required of any american leader was to say, we did our best and we came up short. he went the opposite way, he seized on the anger he had already stoked along his most loyal supporters, and, as they approach the line he did not waive them off, he urged them on, today the committee will explain how, as a part of his last-ditch effort to overturn the election and block the transfer of power, donald trump summoned a mob to washington, d.c., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy. our colleagues, miss murphy from florida, and mr. raskin of maryland, will lay out this story, first i am pleased to recognize our distinguished missed vice chair, and any opening comments she would have cared to offer >> thank you very much, mister chairman, our committee did not conduct a hearing last week but we did conduct and on the record interview a president trump's former white house counsel, pat cipollone. if you have watched these he

donald trump was the author, and we the people, for ourselves and our posterity, should not let donald trump be the finisher. thank you, and i yield to the vice chair. >> thank you very much, mrs. luria. i want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. the members of the select committee may have additional questions for today's witnesses, and we ask that you answer expeditiously to the writing of these questions. without objection, members will be provided ten business days to submit statements to the -- additional questions from our witnesses. i now like to turn things to chairman thompson for a few closing words. >> the members of the committee, and i, appreciate and thank all persons who have come forward voluntarily to provide information to help protect our democracy. and our work continues as we made clear throughout these hearings our investigation is going forward. we continue to receive you information every day. we are pursuing additional witnesses for testimony. we will reconvene and september to continue laying out our findings to the american people, and pushing for ac

the white house counsel is donald trump's top lawyer. we know he was an eye witness to so many of the things that donald trump did. in his testimony already before the congress that cipollone thought the trump was in danger of getting indicted for every crime in the book. if you want to know how serious this is, i think we can just take a look lawrence at donald trump's reaction to the thought that his top lawyer is going and testifying before congress tomorrow. trump issued a statement that really was kind of a rare soft touch. this is totally not trumpian. i mean he didn't undermine cipollone's credibility, he didn't call him silly names like phony cippollone or whatever donald trump would normally do. that's trump think that he does when he scared. with cipollone, he is terrified. so what he is doing is kind of buttering up cipollone and talking about privilege and hoping cipollone will assert executive privilege, assert attorney client privilege and as you say, there's not a wiff of privilege about this stuff. this was a sure loser a

donald trump's hand picked candidate. he worked with trump trying to prove the last election was a fraud. he will protect the second amendment at all costs. >> larry hogan said the democrats are playing with fire. are they? >> i think we need to acknowledge a clear strategy. not only in maryland but across races in soefrl other states. josh shapiro for doug mastriano in pennsylvania, for example. trying to get the more extreme candidate in the general. of course it raises the questions about the -- them playing with fire and the dangers. if the democrats say that drk is under attack how can go ahead and prop the candidates up? >> it is a huge risk. >> it is not only a risk. we also know that democrats, their argument is that this lane would not exist if the republicans did not allow this. >> they did this before, too, democrats have. republicans sometimes meddle in democratic primaries. can it work and especially in house races. >> it is interesting. about a month ago pelosi told her caucus in a private meeting we won't w

against donald trump. you have to draw a hard contrast. i remember the old mike pence, who was a budget hawk, a free trader, a man who won it entitlement reform, all sorts of things that donald trump does not want or is against in many cases. so, i am trying to figure out where mike pence is now. there was the old mike pence, there was the trump mike pence, when he was vice president, and now they're the new mike pence. so i'm just trying to figure this out. i do not think they do agree on policy, and if donald trump and mike pence run against each other, i am sure trump will draw the contrast. he will talk about how mike pence wants to cut medicare. he will say things like that, even if it's true. he will say things like. that he will also talk about trade differences. he wants free trade, trump's for protectionism. i don't think they agree. and for mike pence to stand up there and say, we agree on everything except that thing that happened on january 6th. even though they tried to hang the, hey, i'm stil

donald trump who is clearly the front runner by any standard. i think governor desantis would be number two at the present time. and mike pence. everyone below them is in single digits. those three are serious players. mike pence has earned it the hard way. campaigned as congressmen, governor, vice president. >> specifically in arizona it is interesting to watch mike henson former president donald trump. arizona is not a reliably republican state when it comes to elections. they are part of the vote that you have to get with republicans. two democratic senators now. the way to the white house is through arizona. mike pence did endorse governor brian camp in georgia. he has one up when it comes to gubernatorial endorsements. in terms of things that they are talking about, mike pence wants to move forward. he has not been so critical of donald trump and he is been very optimistic and praiseworthy of their administration and their efforts, the accomplishment that they have made an president trump has had a different perspective and said other thing

who defeated donald trump. so, i think republicans are going to have trouble, at least for the next few weeks and months, in healing those divisions, bringing the party they're back together. as long as that dynamic is going on, democrats will have a window, an opportunity to make some gains. and i think you're going to see that throughout the country. what is happening as a result of these january six hearings that the trump brand, specifically, is suffering. when your own daughter's on video saying that you lied, your former attorney general, the people closest to the president. all republicans, by the way, saying that what he was saying was a complete lie. i, mean that does, little by little, start having an effect on the brand. as the trump brand suffers, i do think republicans are going to face some instability, some turmoil opening up an opportunity for democrats in wet is a difficult political environment for them, given that it's a midterm election and that they do hold the white house. >> kurt, let's s