and so lincoln agrees and lincoln decides to wait until there's a union victory the problem is lincoln's generals can't get their act together. and so there's a major loss at manassas and i in august and then there's not a victory until september of september 17th at antietam. and so while this is going on while lincoln is waiting for this victory to come he does several things to try to prepare the white racist north the white racist electorate in the north for what is coming. he knows he's going to issue an emancipation proclamation. he knows he's got to wait, but he might as well begin to prepare and shape public sentiment on this issue. so he does several things one of which is he writes a very famous letter to horace freely where he says my paramount object in this struggle is to save the union and it's not to either save her to destroy slavery. he's trying to get people on board if if you are willing to fight for the union think about how ending slavery might help do that and then he also calls in this black delegation and he brings us stenographer into the room to write down every

and so lincoln agrees and lincoln decides to wait until there's a union victory the problem is lincoln's generals can't get their act together. and so there's a major loss at manassas and i in august and then there's not a victory until september of september 17th at antietam. and so while this is going on while lincoln is waiting for this victory to come he does several things to try to prepare the white racist north the white racist electorate in the north for what is coming. he knows he's going to issue an emancipation proclamation. he knows he's got to wait, but he might as well begin to prepare and shape public sentiment on this issue. so he does several things one of which is he writes a very famous letter to horace freely where he says my paramount object in this struggle is to save the union and it's not to either save her to destroy slavery. he's trying to get people on board if if you are willing to fight for the union think about how ending slavery might help do that and then he also calls in this black delegation and he brings us stenographer into the room to write down every

several books on lincoln, including lincoln observed, the inner world of abraham lincoln, and the two volume american abraham lincoln, a life. as well as his new book which he will be discussing tonight, the black man's president abraham lincoln, african americans, and the pursuit of racial equality. noah feldman is the chair of society fellows and founding director of the jewelers illiterate program on jewish israeli law at harvard university. he's the author of nine books, including three lives of james madison, genius president, and the latest book which we will be discussing tonight. the broken constitution, lincoln, slavery in the re-founding of america. diana shaub is a professor you leila university. and a fellow at the university -- she is the author of several books, including what so proudly we hail the american soul and story speech and song. her new book is, his greatest speeches. how lincoln move the nation. welcome noah feldman and diana schaub. michael burlingame let us begin with you. tell our friends why you argue in your new book that lincoln was the black man's pres

but lincoln's. and in romaine's case, he is so poorly treated by white society in washington that, part way through his time, he just decides, i'm out of here and he moves to new york city. but it wasn't because of how lincoln treated, him it was because of how washington, d. c. was a southern city in 1863. and it was that treatment that caused him to go to new york. but it's lincoln that breaks down the barrier, in terms of diplomacy and welcoming a diplomat from haiti, which would've been unfathomable before his presidency. >> in official interactions, he seems to have charmed the town. maybe not charmed the town, charmed with the people that came to state dinners and so on and so forth. he is a polyglot, a man of charming manners. >> i found an incredible letter by a woman from iowa. i shouldn't say this out loud because someone will scoop me on it, but her letters are so wonderful and i'm thinking of trying to turn them into a book, to gather them all together. i think there is enough there. exc

but lincoln's. and in romaine's case, he is so poorly treated by white society in washington that, part way through his time, he just decides, i'm out of here and he moves to new york city. but it wasn't because of how lincoln treated, him it was because of how washington, d. c. was a southern city in 1863. and it was that treatment that caused him to go to new york. but it's lincoln that breaks down the barrier, in terms of diplomacy and welcoming a diplomat from haiti, which would've been unfathomable before his presidency. not >> in official interactions, he seems to have charmed the town. maybe not charmed the town, charmed with the people that came to state dinners and so on and so forth. he is a polyglot, a man of charming manners. >> i found an incredible letter by a woman from iowa. i shouldn't say this out loud because someone will scoop me on it, but her letters are so wonderful and i'm thinking of trying to turn them into a book, to gather them all together. i think there is enough there.

this is lincoln's solution. this is one major problem, right the question of what to do with these folks. it's going to last well into even the late 19th century. how do we handle the people who are in rebellion against the united states the 14th amendment is going to have a lot to say about that. but it's not the only major problem. another problem is what are we going to do about our military approach to defeating the confederacy? so some of you may know that winfield scott a great military hero at this point in time had designed a plan for how to approach defeating the confederacy that newspapers began to call the anaconda plan. it was called this because you can see that this line around the confederacy sort of looks like a snake they called it scott's great snake or the anaconda plan and the idea was that you are going to blockade the coastline. and the rivers so that confederates could not receive foodstuffs and goods and military supplies, and then you are going to march your armies right into the heart o

halleck takes this to lincoln. lincoln is reading this and lincoln is saying, see, see? they are trying undercut the administration. they're trying to undercut the war effort. so in that respect, somewhat unwittingly, burnside acts as the person who communicates porter's opinions and they become fairly widely known. some people have suggested that it that action of burnside's that caused mcclellan to turn on burnside during the maryland campaign. i don't know that there's hard and fast evidence for that. that's a supposition no more than something you can easily. but you could see where if porter is a favorite of mcclellan. mcclellan finds out that, in fact burnside has been responsible for on what was otherwise private communication, when mcclellan would begin to take a somewhat dim view of poor burn. i think there are other ways and other rationales for mcclellan's relationship with burnside in the maryland campaign, but it is an entry giving a suggestion, and more than one person has made that suggestion. but it was a serious lapse of judgment on porter's part simply

land of lincoln is certainly a springfield is the city of lincoln. his home is here the old state capitol where you get the house divided speeches here his o law offices are here and of course he's buried on the outskirts of town in oak ridge cemetery. so lincoln is extraordinarily important to the city of springfield. this museum was built in 2005 at open to the public it been a dream a long time of many folks here in central, illinois a presidential library for the greatest president the purpose of the library is very basic to preserve and pass on the legacy of abraham lincoln. he's a man who i think best encapsulated what it means to be american. what the whole idea of america is all about it is a freedom and equality an opportunity. we do put him on a pedestal rightly. but also he was a human being and he had great ambitions to do great things and he certainly succeeded in that. abraham lincoln was born in 1809 in kentucky. he lived there just for fear as he moved me six or seven up to indiana and lived through his teens in indiana. he grew up on

so that's lincoln's view. and once he becomes president he confronts the reality that there have been secessions by at that point seven states and he has to decide what to do about that. and of course that's secession is a fundamental breaking of the constitution and lincoln responded by himself breaking the constitution in i argue three ways, which i'll just mention each very briefly. the first is sort of surprising. we don't necessarily think of it as breaking the constitution, but the decision to go to war unilaterally to obligate the seceding states to return to the union was not under contemporary constitutional norms an obvious authority or right of the presidency or even of the whole government the buchanan administration in an official opinion by the attorney general embraced by buchanan in his state of the union address had said that although secession was revolution. the president congress indeed no part of the federal government have the authority to force the states back into the union because noth

her new book is, lincoln, his greatest speeches. how lincoln move the nation. welcome noah feldman and diana schaub. michael burlingame let us begin with you. tell our friends why you argue in your new book that lincoln was the black man's president. you have several speeches of frederick douglass that you begin with, including in 1865, the eulogy on lincoln. he said no class of people has a better reason for lamenting the death of lincoln then have the colored people. what is the significance of that speech? why do you hold that lincoln was the black man's president? >> thank you very much for your kind introduction. thank you very much for inviting me. i feel a little out of place because the central theme of my book is, let's not focus on lincoln's speeches and writings and policies and alike, let's focus on lincoln's interactions with black people both in lincoln and washington. the title of the book comes from a eulogy from frederick douglass from june 1st in 1865, cooper union, the premier site in the country to give a major speech. it was covered widely

lincoln opposed slavery. as his first inaugural indicated, he was a very concerned about the constitutionality of acting in slavery. as the war progressed, as enslaved people push for their own freedom, of course they have been pushing for many years before this but they are using the war to their advantage, lincoln's hand is forced. he starts to think about how to deal with this constitutionally. by using his power as commander-in-chief, lincoln is able to think about a constitutional solution to this problem that may or may not work after the civil war. we will be qualified in various ways. the emancipation proclamation does not apply to the slave holding states that remain in the union. it does not apply to many areas that the union had recaptured over the previous two years. parts of louisiana, tennessee, virginia, west virginia had also been separated at this point and it did not apply. there it applied to know places that remained in the union. what the effect of this is that it is a piece we'll solutio

lincoln field. the good news, if there can be any, since there was a cost to. all this to stephen was that out of that fragmentation came a group called the lincoln forum about which more in a moment and other group's and days of new collegial events replace that single winter day that brought people together in lincoln's hometown not. to mention a new golden age in civil war history in which i wish stephen had enjoyed more opportunity to participate in and which i wish the lincoln field had the to insist that he did. but stephen's contract final abandoned as we've heard recorded documentation for a unique and arresting blend of fact and fiction in the tradition. we've heard faulkner. but as he said of mark twain tonight, or the belle of amherst with a touch of faulkner and he said, robert altman and john sayles thrown and that's quite a soup. but also in the tradition of say monet stephen made his art increasingly abstract as if he was seeing things more clearly than ever. and it was up to us to se

illinois is the land of lincoln, certainly springfield is the city of lincoln. his home is here, the old state capital where you get the state divided speeches here, his old lofts are here. of, course he's buried on the outskirts of tenet oak ridge segment terry. so, like it is important to the city of springfield. cyber is up to 2005 to the public, and home to many folks here in central illinois. a presidential library for the greatest president. the purpose of the library is very basic, to preserve and pass on the legacy of abraham lincoln. he's a man who i think best caps related what it means to be american, what the whole idea of america is all about. freedom, equality, opportunity. we do put him on a pedestal, rightly, but he was also a human being and had great ambitions to do great things. and he certainly succeeded in that. abraham lincoln was born in 1809 in kentucky. he lived there just for a few years, moved when he was six or seven up to indiana and lived through his teens and indiana. he grew up on the frontier, so he had a lot of hard work to do c

illinois is the land of lincoln, certainly springfield is the city of lincoln. his home is here, the old state capital where you get the house divided speech is here, his old lofts are here. of course he's buried on the outskirts in oak ridge cemetery. so, like it is important to the city of springfield. cyber is up to 2005 to the public, and home to many folks here in central illinois. a presidential library for the greatest president. the purpose of the library is very basic, to preserve and pass on the legacy of abraham lincoln. he's a man who i think best encapsulated what it means to be american, what the whole idea of america is all about. freedom, equality, opportunity. we do put him on a pedestal, rightly, but he was also a human being and had great ambitions to do great things. and he certainly succeeded in that. abraham lincoln was born in 1809 in kentucky. he lived there just for a few years, moved when he was six or seven up to indiana and lived through his teens and indiana. he grew up on the frontier, so he had a lot of hard work to do clearing lan

lincoln and stanton give in. the genesis for lincoln's trip to west point. the genesis for stanton calling pope east. stanton reveals there is going to be an objective is for this army. several, in fact. three. the first will be to protect washington. objective, to defend the shenandoah valley and objective three, disrupt the virginia central railroad in the neighborhoods of charlottesville and gordon ville. by accomplishing these objectives, particularly threatening that vital rebel rail link with the shenandoah valley, the administration, lincoln and stanton, hope that would compel the confederates around washington d. c. and opposite washington d. c., opposite richmond, around richmond and opposite mcclelland's army, that they would pull away from mclelland and it would ease mcclelland's way into the city of richmond. stanton tells pope at that moment he's been called these to carry out these objectives. and it's at this time in the conversation that stanton stops talking and they just look at each other. and there is this long, awkward silence. stanton f

lincoln says no. again pope is reluctant from man so ambitious, why is he turning this down over and over and over again? but popes stuck with his new role and he will begin to deal with the army of virginia and getting it ready for the next campaign. part of dealing with the army of virginia is dealing with the consequences and follow from the most recent campaigns they've experienced against jackson. i am having a problem here with our slide advancer. well, we'll just keep looking at pictures of those three guys. [laughter] i've always admired stanton's facial hair so -- [laughter] as he gets the army of virginia together, what he realizes is the things he talked about our holding true, there army of virginia is in the lowest possible sense, their supply situation is disastrous, hardly any calvary to rely on, most of the calvary men have no forces so he sets upon the task of getting them ready as bestie can for a campaign and part of that is to issue these orders become so famous. the most of which

redeemer president and lincoln emancipation proclamation and abraham lincoln, man of ideas, 2009, lincoln a short introduction, 2009 as well. then a look at the civil war and reconstruction in fateful lighting followed by gettysburg, the last invasion is how allen guelzo looks at the book in 2013, are redeeming the great emancipator in 2016, reconstruction of concise history came out in 2018 and his most recent from a different point of view robert e. lee, a life. if we could allen guelzo, let's go to the year of 1863 which kicked off with the emancipation proclamation very tumultuous year in the nation's history but i want to quote from your book redeeming the great emancipator, quote, the emancipation proclamation which was delivered on january 1st, 1863 is surely the unhappiest of all of abraham lincoln's great presidential papers. that was the one that jumped out to me. [laughter] >> that was a deliberate and provocative strategy on my part. and i say unhappiest basically because while we learned the gettysburg, people memorize the gettysburg address which is 272 words and we add ore

of course, with michael greene's remarks on lincoln, did lincoln have a plan for the west? what was his view of the so-called indian question, that is something we need to unpack as well. even as we understand lincoln's role in emancipation as part of a very broad process that included enslaved people, included congress, radical to abolitionists and others, and the union army. could you just talk about that a little bit? we have the facts before us. can we think of a way of telling more complex and nuance histories without throwing the promo real baby with the bathwater? anyone? [laughs] mycah, go ahead. there are two greens, there is mike, others michael. >> it's an important question. i tend to think of the camps, at least in my work, as almost more destructive than generative. that's i guess why the theme of the problem of trying to control proclamations of people is something that i think we can use, if not connect history that are different, maybe even use it as a lens for how histories can be similar or different. i think that that would be one answer one way to answe

i've got a couple lincoln related documents. this is lincoln's nomination to the senate. nominating u.s. grant to become general, which had not existed since washington. that is all in lincoln's handwriting. the next one, this is actually a telegram. these look very similar. this one is actually on letterhead, this is a letter on letterhead that he sent to the senate. this one is actually a telegram. if you saw the movie lincoln they came out a few years ago from stephen spielberg, they have lincoln is sitting next to a telegraph operator. that happened very frequently during the civil war. the war department in the telegraph office was next to the executive mansion, now called the white house. lincoln would grab a piece of paper nearby. he would write down the telegram and then literally handed directly to the telegraph operator. that is the case with this. this is a dinner invitation. this is mrs. l, mrs. lincoln, requesting general mead and general grant come to dinner with the lincolns, if they have time. >> [inaudible] >> that is all telegraph operator related. he's

he met with lincoln in an effort to gain support in 1862, but lincoln and his advisers proved largely unsympathetic. in the same year, lincoln agreed to enroll native american troops in the area, well before the historically more famous debate about african american troops. he also had to resolve disputes there between military commanders a, problem with which lincoln was intimately familiar in the morning eastern and western theaters and with which most scholars of the war, intimately familiar as well, but perhaps not so much with farther west. indeed farther west in 1862, the battle of gloria pass settled whether the confederacy would be able to keep moving west. the army of the pacific and other things to do too including stopping the native american rights on travelers, which resulted many from the lack of food provided by the iaea. to help the [inaudible] the army gave them food on the orders of james cawthorn, who also responded to complaints from where residents of western new mexico territory, president arizona, that the apache indicted the mining industry. he told his lieuten

lincoln sees this. he then writes a letter that that starts with i don't want to relieve you, command. let me explain you in great detail why i'm so disappointed you and then writes a scathing letter to meade that basically is you weren't aggressive enough and i'm paraphrasing but literally he puts it all on meade and says, you didn't do what i asked you to do. the is going to go on because of you was the letter that he wrote he then folds it up puts it in envelope and on the envelope he writes to general meade not signed, not sorry, not sent nor signed meade saw that letter. meade never knew about that letter. it pains to say this because i love that letter as at the library of congress. it pains greatly so no. so this this would have gone with lincoln's papers upon his death. they went to his son, robert lincoln. robert lincoln was then the one that, you know, gave them to the library of congress. and then it had a ticker that they couldn't be released for many years because he wanted them released be

. >> this was post lincoln-douglas debates, so a lincoln had a -- abraham lincoln had a repetition. >> he did. he is still not a huge national figure. we are talking nine months before the republican convention of 1860. he was not considered a favorite. he was not someone the world was watching at the time. this case got some notoriety locally. as a result, it was significant for lincoln to win the case because it was significant for him politically. i am not saying that was any sort of driving force for him, but this was someone who had his eye on a political future. he had recently lost an election for the senate. abraham lincoln was not the prime candidate out there. he was a lawyer doing what lawyers do. as you point out, in the wake of the lincoln douglas debates was certainly someone the country was keeping an eye on. >> mr. harrison hires abraham lincoln. why did he choose him? was he known as a defense attorney? >> he had handled other murder cases. his cocounsel was the one who had suggested they hire abraham lincoln for this case. that is how he was brought into it. >> we le

i've got a couple lincoln related documents. this is lincoln's nomination to the senate. nominating u.s. grant to become general, which had not existed since washington. that is all in lincoln's handwriting. the next one, this is actually a telegram. these look very similar. this one is actually on letterhead, this is a letterhead that he sent to the senate. this one is actually a telegram. if you saw the movie lincoln they came out a few years ago from scheme in spielberg, they have a senior lincoln is sitting next to a telegraph operator. that happened very frequently during the civil war. the war department in the telegraph office was next to the executive mansion, now called the white house. lincoln would grab a piece of paper nearby. he would write down the telegram and then literally handed directly to the telegraph operator. that is the case with this. this is a dinner invitation. this is mrs. l, mrs. lincoln, requesting general mead and general grant come to dinner with the lincoln's. >> [inaudible] >> that is all telegraph operator related. he's asking about -- [

as it was for abraham lincoln. on july 14th, in a written written but never sent to meade, although he knew he thought -- the president, affirmed i am very, very grateful for you for the magnificent success you gave the cause of the country at gettysburg. the aftermath of the battle, however, left lincoln depressed, his word, not mine. at the seeming lack of aggressiveness on the part of meade and his fellow union commanders. mcclelland created a culture of command of the army of the potomac, and of course it was still there when meade took over. i did not believe you appreciate the magnitude of the misfortune involved and leaves escape, state and lincoln in a passage emphasizing his opinion that gettysburg cycle no turning point. he was in your grasp and seizing upon him would, in connection with our late successes, vicksburg and elsewhere, have ended the war. as it is, concluded a bitterly disappointed lincoln, the war will be prolonged indefinitely. your golden opportunity is gone, and i am distressed immeasurab

who in lincoln were lincoln's words consecrated the ground at gettysburg far above our poor power to add or detract lincoln prophesied the world would never forget. what happened to gettysburg and i hope he was right. thank you. if you have questions, please make your way to the mics on either side of the room. it seems that the explanation of abolition is is in part of a fantasy. i mean, it's partly a cause but also can be exaggerated. similarly. we're to believe that preserve preservation of the union was a satisfactory explanation for four years of chaos and death and on speakable suffering. so where where now can we how do we understand the the cost and why it was born? both by link and and by by the nation well if we had an hour and a half, i could really do justice to that. i mean you're talking you first of all, you're talking about both causation and motivation there you and those are two different things related, but they're different. terms of causation if you take slavery out of the question nothing makes sense there. it's inconceivable to me that there would have been a c

so i'm and then again of course with link with michael green's remarks on lincoln, you know, did lincoln have a plan for the west what was his view of of the so-called indian question? you know, that is something that we need to to unpack as well even as we understand lincoln's role in emancipation as part of a very broad process that included enslaved people included congress radicals abolitionists and others and the union army. so so could you just talk about that a little bit especially, you know, we have the facts before us, but can we think of a way of telling more complex and nuanced histories without throwing the proverbial baby with the bath water? anyone grandma wants to go first. micah i have yeah, no. no. yeah she is on under i cannot michael. yeah. sorry. they're two greens that there's micah there's michael i it's important question. i mean i i tend to think. of the camps at least for in my work as sort of almost more destructive and generative and that's why i guess why the theme of the problem of trying to control populations of people is is something that i think we can u

no question in my mind that lincoln did that. lincoln takes command of the. army despite the fact that these two man, they have a bit of a history. and most of it. we can can work with almost anybody. mcclellan can work with almost no. one he had trouble all his life with superiors. you can see some of the things he had to say and august 15th, 1860. one he's no more than a well-meaning ban, october, 1860. one identity at the white house shortly after two where i found the original. guerrilla november, 1861. -- is weaker than the most garrulous old woman you are ever annoyed by. he is funny. secretary of stewart was a meddling in the competence little puppy. he is writing these things to his wife in private, but believe me you kn what somebody feels a certain way about you. you can pick that up. people pick that up about mcclellan. but lincoln looks past that, and he places mcclellan as his best man, the guy who will take the field against robert e. lee. who was invaded maryland. what is his mission? protect washington, d. c., not let him get the capital. dete

the collective works of lincoln. or if you want to write about grant, you have the 27 of the papers of ulysses s grant. they are there and easily available and beautifully edited. there is no standard edition of these letters in these papers. that is a problem because lee was a compulsive letter writer. haywood wrote i would estimate somewhere between 6,008,000 letters in his life. only there are a lot of them but they are scattered all over the place. little petty packets of lee papers here little penny packet salih papers there. i'm access to archives there were all the way from the morgan library in new york city to liber in san marino and california. and at various points in between. even more is how muchly material surfaces on ebay and auction sites. there are a lot of lee letters and material still in private hands. there is no single edition of lee's works that makes life easier for a biographer. on the other hand are going to make some very interesting discoveries, which i did in the process of this. sometime

books, "abraham lincoln: redeemer president" in 99, lincoln's emancipation proclamation, "lincoln and douglas: the debates that defined america" in 2008, "abraham lincoln as a man of ideas" in 2009, "lincoln: a very short introduction" 2,009 as well and then a look at the civil war and reconstruction in "fateful lightning: a new history of the civil war and reconstruction" followed by "gettysburg: the last invasion" is how allen guelzo looks at that book. in 2013, "redeeming the great emancipator" in 2016, "reconstruction: a concise history" came out in 2018 and his most recent from a different point of view, "robert e. lee: a life". if we could, allen guelzo, let's go to the year 1863 which kicked off with the emancipation proclamation. very tumultuous year in our nation's history but i want to quote from your book "redeeming the great emancipator," quote, the emancipation proclamation which was delivered january 1, 1863, is surely the unhappiest of all of abraham lincoln's actions. >> guest: that is the when you focus on. >> host: that jumped out to me. >> guest: that was a delibera

lincoln the case. he was cocounsel on the trial and retelling the book the story of the case, exactly how defenst creating defense and using the transcript as the yoke of the story. >> this was supposed lincoln douglas debates so abe lincoln had a reputation, correct? >> he did. he's still h not a huge national figure. even though we talk about nine months before the republicans convention of 1860, he still wasn't considered a favorite, he wasn't someone the world was watching at the time but his case got notoriety and as a result it was significant to win the case because it was significant for him politically. i'm not saying it was the driving force for him but someone who had eye on a political future but he had recently lost an election to the senate so abe lincoln was the prime candidate out there, he was a lawyer doing what lawyers do but as you pointed out in the wake of the lincoln douglas debate certainly was someone the country was keeping an eye on. >> why did he choose abe lincoln? was he k

" in 2004 lincoln and douglas the debate that defined in america and lincoln, short introduction 2009 as well and then a look at the civil war and reconstruction in "gettysburg" the last invasion is how allen guelzo looks about book and in 2013 "redeeming the great emancipator" in 2016 and reconstruction in history came out in 2010 this most recent from a different point of view "robert e. lee: a life." if we could allen guelzo let's go to the year 1863 which kicked off with the emancipation proclamation very tumultuous year in our nations history but want to quote from your book "redeeming the great emancipator" quote the emancipation proclamation which was delivered on january 1, 1863 to surely the unhappiness for all of abraham lincoln's great presidential capers. >> the word unhappy is the one you focus on, right? that was the one that jumped out at me. >> that was a deliberate and provocative strategy on myst pa. and i say unhappiest basically because while the log the gettysburg address people memorize the gettysburg address. it is after all only 272 words. and we adore the seco