history, bernie madoff. criminal attorney ira lee sorkin discusse s what's ahead for sbf who has plead guilty and turned state witness. next, closing bell we've got 29 minutes left. as i said we're coming off the lows but there's still significant red on the screen. it's the nasdaq getting hurt the most down 2.25% or 243 points led by the chips. we are coming right back and by the way we want to say because who knows what's going to happen in the final half hour, we'll go commercial free. don't move. when things go right too. like, when you score your dream job. sell your business. or discover she's smart... really smart. now what? here's what: you connect with prudential's rock-solid team serving over 50 million people. with investment, insurance and retirement know-how. who's your rock? visit prudential.com or speak to an advisor today. the refrigerator is greg's happy place. my kids eat. but i finally figured it out. we can get all that we need and then a little bit more at walmart. ♪ if your business k

bernie madoff carried the scheme out according to the government for over 30, 40 years. and the reason he was caught was because his two boys tipped off the government he confessed to his two boys, unfortunately neither of them are with us and the government then acted here, i suspect there are a number of people who when this was not public, tipped off the government, about what has been going on by mr. bankman-fried and that's where the investigation started. they didn't put this case together at least from the standpoint of the s.e.c.'s numerous factual allegations in a month. this is an investigation that has been going on and generally these types of cases start off with somebody who walks into the government, or somebodies walks into the government and says i want to tell you about -- so, that is different than madoff. with madoff, the amount of money the government said when he was solely responsible for was somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 billion. most of that, when i say most of that, i'm overstating, he said before he died and soon after he was arrested th

he's right, this is not quite bernie madoff. here's what i'm hearing from people who watched his performance, some of my sources -- they think, if there is not a real innocent explanation and they give low odds that it is, what we are dealing with is someone who is mentally challenged, the synapses are not working because here is the thing. you could have a good business as a crypto exchange and if you take money out of that exchange and use it for gambling purposes it is hard to rationalize that as anything but illegal even if there is something in the user document, if you read hypothecate that money, or short-term cash that other stuff, if you use that money, someone else's money, and take it to gamble on your own it is called theft. that is where he is headed. my guess is a year from now this guy will be on trial for fraud, probably heading for jail because here's the other thing. all this stuff, yesterday, he actually said he didn't have any controls. didn't have a point person for risk management between the proposition tr

the other thing is, you know, when -- so bernie madoff is there. he's like at least helping at some point the prosecutors. his fate was sealed. there was nothing he could lose by helping. there's a lot he can lose, sam bankman-fried by helping. that's why they -- i'm hedging here about whether they will get him bail. he's not admitting to anything. they haven't found anything. what is fascinating -- you had the congressman on before that said this could be bigger than madoff. got to put it in context. madoff was something like a 40, $50 billion rip-off ponzi scheme. they traced back and clawed back about half of that. so people -- a lot of people got what -- got some of their initial investment back or all of their initial investment back. not the gains. but some of it back. >> neil: is there any chance of that here, charlie? >> that's where it gets crazy. this is an eight billion -- i don't know. the numbers are all over the place. let's say a $5 billion of customer money missing. that none of it could come back. on a proportion scale, this is whe

huge fraud bernie madoff died in prison, but very different. and every fraud is -- is unusual and unique. but madoff was -- acting as a money manager. and as a fiduciary so there is the expectation when people gave their money to bernie madoff, that he was a -- taking care of it. and was acting as a -- not -- as a custodian, managing it for them. there was no expectation of that with sam bankman-fried. at a bare the most this was an exchange. it was noting regulated in the united states it was an offshore exchange, the vast majority of activity that happened was offshore. anyone here in the united states who had their money there, knew that. or expectation was that they knew that. he was not acting as a fiduciary. so when people say oh, bernie madoff the only comparison is well it was a fast allegedly but no expectation of regulation, of fiduciary duty he was a not a money manager let's be very clear about that, that doesn't make the theft alleged right. but nevertheless, there is a big you know, this is kind what have you were getting into by

fraud schemes. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff. >> yeah, i mean, i don't think that's who i am at all. but i understand why they're saying that. people lost money. and people lost a lot of money, and, i mean, at the end of the day, look, there's a question of what happened and why and who did what. what caused the melt down, and i think that is -- reads very differently, right, when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business. ftx, that was a real business. >> reporter: ftx used celebrity endorsements from super stars like tom brady, naomi osaka, steph curry, even a super bowl ad featuring larry david, but the big names can't cloud questions as to whether ftx improperly used investors' money to make loans to his mhedge fun. >> i do not know there was improper use of customer funds. >> you also took out a $1 billion loan. what was that for? >> that was generally for reinvesting in the company. >> reporter: as investors ponder what's next, bankman-fried admits he didn't pay attention in a business that's based on trust. >> i wasn't spen

. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff. >> yeah. i mean, i don't think that's who i am at all. but i understand why they're saying that. people lost money. and people lost a lot of money. and, i mean -- at the end of the day, look -- there's a question of what happened and why, what caused the meltdown. and i think that reads very differently, right? when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business there. the whole thing was just one big ponzi scheme, right? ftx, that was a real business. >> reporter: he was at the top of the cryptocurrency world. 30-year-old billionaire sam bankman-fried. >> you just need ftx. >> ftx, a safe and easy way to get into crypto. >> yeah, i don't think so. >> super bowl ads. named stadiums. steph curry, gisele bundchen. >> we did a lot of things to try and bolster our reputation, to try and, you know, help our brand. >> reporter: in the early morning hours of november 11th, it all came to an end. when ftx filed for bankruptcy and bankman-fried stepped down as ceo amid reports

from bernie madoff to enron it looks like this will go down as one of the largest frauds in history. mr. ray, you are in a unique perspective on the fact you have worked on the enron bankruptcy. i would be interested real quick if you talk a little bit real quick about how it compares. you got cut off in the early time. i would like to hear about that. mr. ray: enron was a really different company. crimes that were committed there were highly orchestrated, financial machinations, by highly sophisticated people. to keep transactions off balance sheets. this is really old-fashioned embezzlement. this is just taking money from customers and using it for your own purpose. not sophisticated at all. sophisticated perhaps in the way they were able to hide it from people. frankly right in front of their eyes. this isn't sophisticated whatsoever. this is just plain old embezzlement. mr. williams: old school. mr. ray: old school. mr. williams: there you go. it seems like fried had some interesting ideas how he can stay relevant in the f.t.x. world. even after stealing customers money and drivi

madoff, maybe -- neil: bernie madoff also -- he didn't have to hang out. charles: that is what i am saying. this is where it gets funky for me. they wanted him to be talking to you. he admitted to everything unlike sam bankman-fried. to show where the bodies are buried, to claw the money back, the deal, making something whole and the bernie madoff victims, a lot of them were made whole in terms of initial investment and bankruptcy, half the size of the ponzi scheme like it was $50 billion ponzi scheme, something like $25 billion back so people were able to become mostly whole on their initial investment and they did a bike lying back people who took out the gains like the former owner of the mets got gains like 10% a year or whatever it was. he had to give a lot of that back, hundreds of millions of dollars. they were involved. you would want the guy helping with that. i don't know why they need sam bankman-fried. 's girlfriend his girlfriend, his ex, carolyn, who was running of the alameda fund, the side hustle to the exchange that took the money. not tha

attorney in the criminal investigation of disgraced fraudster, bernie madoff. it's good to see you. >> nice to see you. elizabeth: when you saw ftx fraud explode and learn comparisons to bernie madoff, what were your reactions to all of that? >> first of all, it brought me back 14 years almost to the day when the madoff fraud broke. but what's viking to me are the -- striking to me are the differences between madoff and bankman-fried. what's alleged currently happened in a markedly unregulated market, more of wild west, whereas what madoff did occurred in a very highly regulated securities market. the current case took place over 2-3 years, madoff was over decades. the victims are different. or appear on, i imagine anyway, in the realm of cryptocurrency you probably have more sophisticated investors, younger investors. in the case of madoff, i think it was much more diverse, a lot of older people, people who had been, families who had been with him for decades. there were, of course, sophisticated investors, but the victims included unions, people who doesn't e

. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff? >> yeah: i mean, i don't think that is who i am at all. but i understand why they're saying that. people lost money. and people lost a lot of money. and, i mean, at the end of the day, look, there is a question of what happen and why and who did what. what caused the meltdown and i think that is -- reads very differently. when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business there. the whole thing, as i understand it, i think, was just one big ponzi scheme, right. ftx, that was a real business. >> also not just that but also can people get their money back? what is the chance that anybody does? was it a real business? >> invoices via slack. people may be able to get some money back. there are coins an assets that were at one point associated with ftx. will they get all of their money back. probably not. er you look at the spending and they can't keep track of where this money went. i will say something about bernie madoff, i covered him extensively and he had ve

neil: it is different from the bernie madoff case, if there was any exposure to ftx, anything that took it on the chin, a large part because of this investigation of bankruptcy, you have a larger case to make against the guy. >> you definitely do and a lot of people who are most angry with him, in the interview we talked about that, how you need to segment funds for spot traders versus margin traders, but between ftx international. not a sharp dividing line. and and he's gambling with us citizens funds. neil: do you think he goes to jail the rest of his life. >> i think so. made off got one hundred 50 and you don't want to be the subject of the government setting an example. so many crosshairs and attention on him that to do anything other than throwing the book at him would be bad optic so i think he spent the rest of his life in jail or an extended amount of his life behind bars in white-collar facility. neil: you have been a big help figuring this craziness out. and potential criminality as well. taking a look at developments of what is happening in the economy and highflying compani

madoff, he was bernie paid off. he paid off all the rest, donated to half of congress, he thought he was going to skate, donated to everybody, did a crypto symposium with bill clinton who got a ton of money, he wanted in singles but the money was spent. stuart: the timing of the arrest is suspicious. >> of the democrats had their way they would have rather gotten him under oath today and said to the best of my recognition i don't remember i don't remember, because the arrest sends a message to what their top priority is now which is the next criminal's money. they are done with him because they have to be but last thing they want future criminals to think is if you donate to us it might not work out so they are in a tight spot. stuart: what i found amazing is venture capitalists went to see him in the bahamas, interviewed him in his shorts and t-shirt, they still handed over hundreds of millions of dollars. billions. billions of dollars. looks like that. >> i'm a new york city cabdriver. it is the equivalent of any

bernie madoff doing what he did, was investigating, the greatest ponzi scheme ever. regulation sounds good and if you start regulating these things, you might be improving their bad deeds because there's a lot of hidden stuff in all this crypto. this debate we are having now for a while including as republicans take the one hundred eighth congress, i want to switch gears and talk about layoffs in wall street because everyone is talking about it, all my sources, for morgan stanley, bank of america, jpmorgan, goldman sachs, they are trying to avoid mass layoffs. we have 5% of the underperformers, probably laid off. we will see a vast reduction in bonuses as much as 50%. if you're in the m and a department you will get a lower bonus, a large degree of attrition, trying to do jobs they think they can get away with it. that is most of the firms. there is one firm that is an exception to that and that is credit suisse for a lot of reasons we are reporting, it is a troubled bank. the credit default swaps went through the roof as people thought -- it is not troubled but they

i spoke with the lead forensic accounting expert in the made off -- bernie madoff case. we know that ftx, little to no record-keeping. investigators have to reconstruct what was originally there and what is now missing. then everything is there again, to determine where assets went and who moved them. i'm talking phone records, text messages, bank transfers, former ceo is accused of fraudulently lending customer assets to alameda research so investigators will look for a single email or signed document that show he knew what was going on and he spoke at a twitter space and reveals in the beginning of the fallout he was on the phone with caroline constantly so investigators will be looking at transcript of things like that and to see of corporate profits were cashed out to buy these lavish purchases or donate to campaigns. if so everything is subject to being clawed back like in the bernie madoff case. >> we have to find out where were the airplanes, where did the money go? all of that was attached by the trustee and liquidated and brought back to pay the victims of that

. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff. >> yeah. i mean, i don't think that's who i am. look, there is a question of what happened and why. and who did what. and what caused the meltdown. and i think that is very differently, when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business there. the whole thing, as i understand it, i think, was just one big ponzi scheme, right? ftx, that was a real business. >> jesse: you never really be in a position where you are saying i'm not really that much like madoff "primetime" mini madoff is sticking. >> he doesn't like it. sorry, mini, that's your name. although we do like crypto fetterman. george stephanopoulos who could have called the crypto scam company out let mini madoff play the victim card instead. watch. this you also took out a $1 billion loan. what was that for? >> that was generally reinvest not guilty company. that was not for, you know, consumption. i, you know, tyke, i have basically nothing left. i think i have $100,000 left in my bank account last time i chec

there aren't that many people when it was bernie madoff. people understand how stocks are traded. they don't understand the crypto exchanges and the way it's organized and that's helping sbf argue it was too complicated and it got out of control and he didn't know what was going on. >> dana: i would put myself in that category. i have been trying to understand crypto. it has never totally sunk in. until this story. now i start to realize okay, so the shell game he was playing or appears to have been playing is one that ultimately lost people a lot of money and it's a real shame. he will come to capitol hill, i believe that. thank you for being here today. >> thanks. >> bill: thank you, clay. so-called triple dem i can pushing hospitals to the brink. will it force some cities in america to bring back the mandatory mask? at newday usa we give veterans the va cash out loan with no upfront costs for an appraisal or termite inspection. no upfront costs at all. let us get your family security of cash in the bank. [sfx: cards shuffling] this holiday, weathertech gift cards are perfect fo

is beyond anyone's expectations 2009 when bernie madoff was free it was 10 million-dollar bond. that is nothing compared to the 250 million-dollar bond to be posted by sbf, as he is known, to be free here in new york, only to travel to california he should be living with his parents. his parent, both stanford law professors in palo alto. he is supposed to according to the judge live there, be here in the southern district of new york or eastern district of new york. those are the only options until another hearing set for third of january. that is the expected development. we expect sam bankman-fried to be walking out the doors any moment now, neil. free on bail. it's a bail number we haven't seen anytime before. 250 million-dollar bond. neil: he has some money. wild stuff. connell, that was great. thanks for summing it up so neatly. connell mcshane outside manhattan federal courthouse. corner of wall and broad, all major averages down. no hope right now for the santa rally at least today goes. let's go to my friend charles payne to take -- charles: he came up with 250 million.

not that much different than bernie madoff. he reminds me of madoff. i've interviewed all the creeps. not him. they all had this weird disengagement from reality. madoff when i was interviewing him in prison at the time, you know, you know, i was kind of forced into it. my clients demanded it. this guy is doing the same thing. >> bill: you wrote about madoff saying he committed the fraud because he was trapped into the greed of others. >> that's what he told me. there is a disengagement. in order to be a socio- path and rip people off there has to be something in your brain that keeps you focused on the crime or on the misdeed and you see it in madoff, i saw it in epstein, i interviewed him several times. a guy totally detached from the reality of what he did. you see it in this guy saying i didn't mean this. oh, i -- you know, i was too busy with ftx to care about the hedge fund that was losing all the money. i made a mistake here. and every now and then he says i'm sorry. it really is a bizarre psychological thing but it is common. they all have the

but we have seen in the cases like a bernie madoff where people sort of built a ponzi scheme. does any of this sound to you like that? >> yeah, it sounds very much like that and you know, bernie madoff, it is interesting that you mentioned that because i think that is the classic case not only of the kind of scheme where if you're an investigator this is the kind of thing that you would be looking at but also the fact is, that you know, he got, if my memory serves, neil, he got over a quarter of a century imprisonment beyond that. that was because the sentencing guidelines for this kind of fraud, once you prove that it is fraud and the dollar amounts just zoom the sentencing guidelines in a very exorbitant way. so you know the first issue is, to get over the hump, was there knowing fraud? if there was, the dollars add up pretty quickly which is why people are talking about hefty jail sentences. it is not, you know, on balance it is not a violent crime. it is not something you think of as the hammer really comes down on people but the way the federal sentencing guidelines in pa

he makes bernie madoff look like a saint. i mean, when you look at the recovery of assets from that ponzi scheme, i believe, like, 88% of investors' principal, not the gapes because the gains were always fake anyways, but 88% of the madoff ponzi scheme principal was returned to investors. who knows how much -- probably nothing -- is going to be to returned in this unfortunate situation. but, rook -- look, to back up, bitcoin, etherium, i think with regards to hose two, those two seem to be halfwaying decent asset classes. i think when you start to get into the lesser known coins, that's where i think investors are probably going to shy away from those for quite some time. david: so it might end up being a good thing, really separating the wheat from the chaff. the companies that will remain are the strong companies which hold the coins -- >> yes. david: -- they don't trade the coins or do any hanky-panky like ftx was up to. >> yeah. you remember all that doing coin buzz from a couple years ago. all of these made-up coins, you

jackie: it is surprising to me, i think back to bernie madoff. i think when he was exposed, two weeks later not only was he not under arrest but was sitting down with the "new york times" at a conference. at one point where he laughed and or smirked said he had a bad month. everybody in the room laughed as well. i imagine that would be offensive to investors like you. we've got a sound bite from yesterday though. let's listen to it. >> there are things i would be banking to do over again. i was shocked by what happened this month. look, i screwed up. i was the ceo of ftx. i had a responsibility. there was no person who was chiefly in charge of positional risk of customers on ftx and that feels pretty embarrassing in retrospect. jackie: i'm just curious, how it feels to you when you hear him say i screwed up? we had no risk controls in place. how could that be? >> i mean he needs to realize there is consequences to screwing up, right? a lot of people screw up but they pay what is due. he needs to be behind bars right now. he needs to be, somebody

neil: for those that have lost money here, this was the same question asked after the bernie madoff implosion, what is the likelihood they will get any of their money back? >> on the u.s. side, the u.s.-based customer aren't even victims according to the indictment in terms of the charges, the criminal charges in that. so that is a hurdle there. but sbf has said they were segregated enough in the u.s. there shouldn't be an issue. we're hearing everything was comingled. there were issues with alameda. it is hard to say. everyone will come in as creditors for the same boat. there is no preference for customers in the bankruptcy code as it is now. hopefully a legislative fix in the near future. neil: all right. david, thank you for taking the time to sort of sort this out. it looks like it will be pretty involved in the weeks, months, maybe even ahead. david, thank you. we're following do you in negative territory from being up 800 points. the catalyst for all this early on was a better than expected inflation retail report. in other words inflation is still alive and well. it is not as strong o

there has been many comparisons made as people examine what happened at ftx from bernie madoff to enron. you have a unique perspective because of the fact you worked on the enron conspiracy. i would be interested to see how you think it compares. you got cut you have earlier and i'd like to hear about that. >> enron was a different company. you know, was a -- crimes that were committed there were highly orchestrated financial match nations by highly sophisticated people to keep transactions off balance sheets you know, this is really old-fashioned embezzlement this is just taking money from customers and using it for your own purpose. not sophisticated at all sophisticated is perhaps in the way they were able to sort of hide it from people. frankly right in front of their eyes but this isn't -- this isn't, you know, sophisticated whatsoever this is just plain old embezzlement, old school. >> old school, there you go. it seems like he had interesting ideas on how to stay relevant in the ftx world. even after stealing customers money and driving it into bankruptcy i have read he wants to

ironically fried was arrested one day after the 14th anniversary of bernie madoff's arrest. the cases are different. madoff was a mastermind. he worked sole hoe to create this facade eventually took a life on its own. he enthralled wall street. bankman-fried is more creation in my mind of wall street and silicon valley. you know, the thing that is really happening right now that is starting to come out somehow for me at least the system has been robbing the public in some ways particularly through the ipo system but i think they became overconfident. i think they became careless. ended upbeating them to a degree. make no mistakes, fat cats are not the victims here. yesterday after a rollicking affair at house financial services committee a lot of different things emerged except what i wanted to hear. i want to bring in congressman warren davidson. congressman, sbf didn't show up. he was arrested the day before. many are frustrated, that he would have yielded great information, maybe perjured himself even more, what happened actually at the hearing yesterday, just the notion

was he being nefarious like bernie madoff? or horrible risk management? >> todd: a lot of people lost money. a navy seal who became famous after coming out transgender says he is de-transitioning and the process ruined his life. >> you need to wake up and know that there is a lot of information out there that is being hidden and i want you to search that information. after years of chasing the big idaho potato truck... i finally caught it. oh man. always look for the grown in idaho seal. i see an amazing place. feels like a dream. a place of many wonders - and full of life. i open my eyes: earth is our pandora. as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switchin

we learned it the hard way with bernie madoff. don't learn it the hard way in your life, right, liz? liz: i know there's a spread between ftx and blackstone, but that is -- charles: bottom line is if someone needs their money right now they can't get it. liz: i don't like that idea. thank you so much.

. >> ron, i've heard some compare him to bernie madoff. is that an adequate parallel. >> in some ways, it is. from what we understand in retrospect rarely ran a legitimate business and ultimately it was a classic ponzi scheme where the less money coming in was going out to fund his operations and there was a lot of trading activity that never took place. a lot of investment activity that never took place. that seems to be the case here. now, the difference between that bankman-fried used some of these funds for highly levered bets on crypto currencies and may have lost a great deal of money in the process. it's about the same size. there are one million reported clients who may have as much as $50 billion in losses and bernie madoff was 65 billion. enron was 25 billion. so yeah, it ranks up there in the annals of wall street scandals in terms of size, scope. although not necessarily impact. the one thing about crypto is it's been relatively isolated from our financial system so it doesn't necessarily pose a risk to the entire system as oth

let's take a look. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff. >> yeah. i mean, i don't think that's who i am at all, but i understand why they're saying that. people lost money. and people lost a lot of money and i mean at the end of the day, look, there's a question of what happened and why and who did what. what caused the meltdown -- and i think that is -- reads very differently. when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business there. the whole thing, as i understand it, i think, was just one big ponzi scheme, right? ftx, that was a real business. >> reporter: he was at the top of the cryptocurrency world. 30-year-old billionaire sam bankman-fried. >> you just need ftx. >> it's ftx. it's a safe and easy way to get into crypto. >> ah, i don't think so. >> super bowl ads, naming stadiums, steph curry, gisele bundchen. >> we did a lot to bolster our reputation, help our brand. >> reporter: but in the early morning hours of november 11th, it all came to an end when ftx filed for bankruptcy and bankman-fried stepped down as ceo

for example, fraudster bernie madoff had a $10 million bond. elizabeth holmes theranos received a $500,000 bond was potentially a flight risk, but he did voluntarily waive extradition from the bahamas come back to new york. so i think the government saw the writing on the wall, but they weren't able to get him detained, so they negotiated a very high bond amount to ensure that bank winfried is going to make his court appearance. blankman freed faces eight counts of fraud and conspiracy. he's accused of stealing billions of dollars from ft x and its investors for his own personal use, like buying expensive real estate and donating to political campaigns. is also accused of using that money to back up his hedge fund alameda research to members of bank manfred's inner circle, including his ex girlfriend also pleaded guilty to federal charges and are cooperating with the investigation. these are too high level executives who already pled guilty and are cooperating in the case against make winfried so that's bad news for him. personally i think the

today, he appeared in the same courthouse where bernie madoff once pleaded guilty. the clanging of shackles around his ankles audible in the room. he's now facing eight charges, including fraud and conspiracy. and he's not the only one. before bankman-fried landed in new york, authorities announcing two of his key associates, his ex-girlfriend, caroline ellison, and the cofounder of ftx, gary wang, had agreed to testify against him. both pleading guilty to charges for playing what prosecutors called a significant role in the $8 billion fraud. and linsey, before he left court, sam bankman-fried was barred from doing any business worth more than $1,000. then again, the judge pointed out, after what happened with the collapse of ftx, sam bankman-fried has achieved significant notoriety that nobody wants to do business with him. linsey? >> aaron, thank you. >>> we move on now to the triple virus thread heading into the holiday weekend. along with the flu, covid, and rsv, the cdc is issuing a new alert for an invasive form of strep. here's abc's erielle reshef. >> report

. >> when you look at classic bernie madoff story. the whole thing was one big ponzi scheme. fgx that was a real business. >> >> tucker: he is not under arrest? he didn't trespass or walk into nancy pelosi's office. talking to george stephanopoulos. for tucker carlson today we sad down with a man that participated and covered it and one of the most honest guys on the topics he assessed the story. here is part of it. >> key to his empire or fraud is that he created his own play money token called ftt. he was able to create it without any time underlying giving it value whatsoever. this is a whole crypt graphic scam with the krit toe market. individuals, many people that create these coins or scam coins. they create ether, cardono xrp. they list them on each other's exchange. thy they buy them from each other to create a price and enhanced price to go buy something like sam bankman free did real estate in the bahamas. it is a ponzi scheme. gary ginsler should have been calling time but he is also involved i would call collusion. problem in america, you have a country that is ru

madoff was. a former prosecutor says this case will come down to intent. >> at the core of it this actually isn't a case about cryptocurrency. it's a case as old as fraud is, which is a ponzi scheme. >> reporter: bankman-fried is expected to make his first u.s. court appearance tomorrow. lester. >> all right, gabe, thank you. >>> in 60 seconds the murder mystery in idaho six weeks after the killing of those fourur college s students. whwhy the chieief of police tolold us the case has not gone coldld. thatat's next. (l(limu squawkwks) he's's a naturalal. ononly pay foror what you u . he's's a naturalal. ♪♪liberty. l liberty. liberty. l liberty.♪♪ your brainin is an amamazing th. bubut as you g get older,, it naturally b begins to c ch, causining a lack o of sharpn, oror even trououble with r r. thanankfully, ththe breakthrhron prevagagen helps y your bran and actualally improveves mem. the secretet is an ingngredit originalally discovevered.. in jellyfifish. in c clinical trtrials, prevage

reporter: a key question now, whether bankman-fried will be granted bail while he awaits trial like bernie madoff was a former prosecutor says this case will come down to intent. >> at the core of it this actually isn't a case about cryptocurrency it's a case as old as fraud is, which is a ponzi scheme. >> reporter: bankman-fried is expected to make his first u.s. court appearance tomorrow. lester >> all right, gabe, thank you. >>> in 60 seconds the murder mystery in idaho six weeks after the killing of those four college students. why the chief of police told us the case has not gone cold that's next. >>> alall right. cold. that's nexext. (limu sqsquawks) he's a natatural. only payay for what t you n. ♪libertrty. libertyty. libertrty. libertyty♪ only payay for what t you n. your b brain is anan amazing t . but as y you get older, it naturalally begins to chan, cacausing a lalack of sharar, or even n trouble wiwith rec. thankfullyly, the breaeakthrougn prprevagen helelps your brbn and acactually impmproves mem. the sesecret is anan ingredit origiginally disiscovered.. in jelellyfish. i

today, he appeared in the same courthouse where bernie madoff once pleaded guilty. the clanging of shackles around his ankles audible in the room. he's now facing eight charges, including fraud and conspiracy. and he's not the only one. before bankman-fried even landed in new york, authorities announcing two of his key associates, his ex-girlfriend, caroline ellison, and the cofounder of ftx, gary wang, had agreed to testify against him. both pleading guilty to charges for playing what prosecutors called a significant role in the $8 billion fraud. before he left court, bankman-fried was barred from doing any business worth more than $1,000. a then again, linsey, the judge pointed out after what happened with the collapse of ftx, ba bankman fried achieved such notoriety that nobody wants to do business with him. linsey? >> aaron, thank you. >>> we move on now to the triple virus thread heading into the holiday weekend. along with the flu, covid, and rsv, the cdc is now issuing a new alert for an invasive form of strep. here's abc's erielle reshef. >> reporter: tonigh

it moved a lot more quickly when bernie made off -- bernie madoff , when his ponzi scheme came to light. we will see how it plays out but hopefully they will take action before long. regarding us, the crypto industry has definitely slowed down. we saw fantastic growth late last year and early part of this year but it is true that the market has slowed down. we have taken steps to make responsible choices for the industry and bring our expenses in line with revenues and ensure that we are there long-term. our company has been around for over a decade and we intend to be around for many decades to come. ed: dave, i want to point out your -- i want to point out that that is your opinion, again. about sbf. diamond has called crypto tokens a pet rock. your response? >> an example of someone who does not have a good grounding understanding about technology or innovation. it could also be incentives to say negative things about cryptocurrency. it could be a combination of a lot of things. inevitably when i find someone that negative on cryptocurrency, it is either because of lack of understand

that something afforded to the disgraced for nuncio bernie madoff defrauded investors out of billions of dollars. sam bankman—fried was denied bail in the bahamas which is why many people believe that he agreed to be extradited to the us in the first place. in a bbc interview before his arrest, sam bankman—fried argued he didn't knowingly commit fraud. little solace for customers of ftx who have lost billions. one of them — india based entrepreneur evan luthra — has been talking to the bbc�*s michelle fleury. he told her he had assets of $2 million on ftx and isn't hopeful he'll ever see that money again. the ftx is the business and was a good business, do wonderful, the best user experience. egan the best user experience. evan luthra was _ the best user experience. evan luthra was a — the best user experience. evan luthra was a big _ the best user experience. evan luthra was a big fan _ the best user experience. evan luthra was a big fan of - the best user experience. evan luthra was a big fan of visual currency exchange ftx until it imploded last month. speaking to me fr

reporter: a key question now, whether bankman-fried will be granted bail while he awaits trial like bernie madoff was a former prosecutor says this case will come down to intent. >> at the core of it this actually isn't a case about cryptocurrency it's a case as old as fraud is, which is a ponzi scheme. >> reporter: bankman-fried is expected to make his first u.s. court appearance tomorrow. lester >> all right, gabe, thank you. >>> in 60 seconds the murder mystery in idaho six weeks after the killing of those four college students. why the chief of police told us the case has not gone cold that's next. >>> all l right. cocold. ththat's next.t. (limu squauawks) hehe's a naturural. only pay f for what yoyou n. hehe's a naturural. ♪♪liberty.y. liberty.. liberty.y. liberty..♪ your brarain is an a amazing th. but as youou get olderer, itit naturallyly begins toto , caususing a lackck of sharpn, or even trtrouble withth rec. ththankfully, , the breaktkthron prevevagen helpsps your bran and actutually improroves mem. the secrcret is an i ingredit origininally discocovered.. in jellylyfish.

. >> joe: yeah, makes bernie madoff look likeable. since the implosion of ftx, sam bankman-fried doesn't have a care in the world. he went on a media tour and drew laughs laughing about the situation and now meeting with hollywood writers. is this worthy of a big hollywood production with him in the starting role? sam bankman-fried should be in jail right now awaiting trial. he is living in oon opulent home whoil enjoying freedom, a lot of people are disgusted by this. he deserves no special treatment. >> todd: any proceeds you get from a movie uf your story and your story's illegality goes to help the people you injured, let's see if he is uniebl to get the democrats to change the law, hope that doesn't happen and whoopi goldberg fierce to ooh pol jize gean for comments about the holocaust. my best friend said not for nothing. we are probably not a race, this coming on the heels of this comment. >> the holocaust is not about race, it is man's inhumanity to man. >> todd: she tries to do clean up. i don't know if it worked, is she -- h

the fact that bernie madoff was a crook didn't destroy the asset management and falling out of favorite and in general things do survive that but there's a difference in the crypto world in the sense that governments don't like crypto. crypto currencies in particular, bitcoin have been created as an alternative to government-feared currency and no one likes monopoly and even challenged and i think regulation dropping in and regulated out of existence after batting outright. ashley: terrific stuff here. we cover add lot of ground. appreciate your time this morning. thank you. >> thank you. ashley: let's move on and today so far, you have some movers for us and speaking with paramount. lauren: did you see top gun maverick? ashley: i haven't seen it yet. have you? lauren: ash, it's so good. stream it on paramount+. ashley: i'm going to do it. lauren: as many people have, broke the streaming record for that site. paramount up about 5% today and by the way traditional box office for maverick about $1.5 billion. did well. intel. italy's prime minister requesting a meeting with intel's executi

bernie madoff, for what happened with enron. . we have actually been calling for clear regulation and trying to work with policymakers. we made progress on that across various g20 countries. i think it will serve as a wake-up call and as a catalyst to where we will get more clear regulation in the united states. that will be a good thing for both coinbase and the whole industry. >> sam bankman-fried was supposedly interested in having the c.f.t.c., which regulates commodities, as a regular for the industry, rather than the ftc, which tends to regulate securities. do you have a view of what is better for the industry, and what you would prefer as regulator? >> crypto is many different things. there are several crypto commodities that should be regulated at the c.f.t.c.. in the future they may even want to regulate spot trading of commodities. the sec should be regulating crypto securities. i think that could be a very big business in terms of how people raise capital for their businesses and investments and things like that in the

former representative of bernie madoff joins us now. kyra, these are -- ira, these are stark words from williams. is this one of the largest u.s. financial frauds in history? ira: well history is my hobby but one thing the u.s. attorney left out is that there is a presumption of innocence here. they paraded a whole bunch of federal agents on, but you have to remember that the story has yet to unfold and has yet to unfold with the others involved who will be charged. that's what i meant when i said conspiracies. when conspiracies are charged, you don't conspire with yourself. there will be other individuals named. so you can expect that. the second point i want to make is that the sec was on to this well before i believe the bankruptcy because their complaint, as in most cases when there are parallel proceedings between the ftc, cftc, and the department of justice, the leg work is done by the noncriminal regulators who then get assistance from the u.s. attorney department of justice in bringing these cases. the regulators cannot bring cr

the only thing we've seen like this is recent years is bernie madoff. the prosecutor there is talking. it is highly unusual for someone to be conducting media interviews where he discusses the conduct being investigated. no criminal defense attorney i know would recommend doing that. no matter how careful mr. bankman-fried thinks he can be, it's almost inevitable that something he says will come back to haunt him. that just adds more fuel to the fire of what you are talking about, matt. let's go one more with matt and leo i'll come back to you. the bahamas are holding them wanting to put him through their court system before being extradited to the united states. what is he facing there? >> i thought it was an interesting development that the u.s. hasn't sought extradition. bahamas are not only want to prosecute him under their law but remember my understanding is they are holding $3 hundred million worth of money that was seized from ftx, it's in crypto in cold storage. not online. so they will want to resolve the claims under their system before they

madoff, the notary is fraudster who ran a ponzi scheme that defrauded investors of billions. he was arrested on bail before his trial and i believe that is what his defence team are hoping will happen for bankman fried. he was arrested last week in the bahamas after federal prosecutors in new york filed an eight—count indictment, including allegations of fraud and conspiracy. joining me now is ed price, principal at ergo intelligence. these bankruptcy proceedings are going to be anything but smooth, what you envisage happening? fin smooth, what you envisage happening?— smooth, what you envisage happening? smooth, what you envisage ha enin: ? ., ., happening? on the one hand it seems very _ happening? on the one hand it seems very simple, _ happening? on the one hand it seems very simple, an - seems very simple, an old—fashioned case of old —fashioned case of embezzlement, old—fashioned case of embezzlement, money—laundering, wire fraud, securities fraud, so if anyone watching the news this morning that seems pretty obvious now. but on the other hand you asking wh

you look at bernie madoff, he got 150 year sentence for that. the idea that this guy's released on any level of bond is pretty questionable. i do hope he stays in custody at some point, he stands trial and gets a fair trial and i look forward to seeing how the facts of the case come out. for regulators, we need to look at this and see how it's gone undetected and make sure that we've got the safeguards the in place so that -- this is a very promising sector and a lot of peoplare painting the whole secs fraud. the reality is, this is old school fraud. the former restructuring king of enron, he's like this is worse than enron but it's just basic fraud, not a fail j -- failure f crypto. maria: it's good to see you. thank you so much for your work. we will talk soon. thank you, sir, merry christmas. >> thank you, merry christmas. maria: we are previewing the november pce index coming out in an hour's time. the word on wall street is right after this. ♪ maria: next week on "mornings with maria," tuesday, get in on the action early, sam dibanchi on

in a bernie madoff case clawbacks reached back years. a lot of people may be forced to cough up the money they received. stanford professors joseph bankman and barbara-fried. they were paid by ftx and that may be clawed back. they lawyered up. the new york times says their legal bills alone will bankrupt them. must be a lot of people who are very anxious. will their names be revealed? will what is left of their money be clawed back, this is what happens when smart people are caught up in fear of missing out and bamboozled by a guy in baggy pants and a stained t-shirt. second hour of varney just getting started. stuart: molly hemingway joins us, good to see you this friday morning. a lot of people are going to be ruined financially and their reputation ruined as well. what do you think? >> this is an amazing story in part because teams the signs were there for so long that this was an unwise decision. this man was so well connected, he had done such a good job paying off powerful people in washington dc and elsewhere and not enough has be

this is going to be something that rivals i think bernie madoff and other big scams of our time. he's looking at decades in prison ultimately if he's convicted. >> the justice department is expected to request the extradition from the bahamas and the government says it will promptly process the request. back to you. >> steve: interesting tidbit, charged by the sec, not the doj, these are financial crimes so far. >> when you look at what ultimately he's accused of doing, seems ripe for sec enforcement. he gave a lot of money to a lot of democrat donors and the like. >> steve: is that against the law? >> it's not against the law, but a lot of the doj is necessarily controlled by democratic connected individuals, or sec, maybe a little more entrenched over the series of a number of administration's, and on the left, if you are on the sec and go after a bad guy with money, you are kind of a hero, looks like the sec is doing here. >> steve: thank you for the update. >> will: amazing what you can get away with under virtue signalling. and that was his brochure for raising billions, he

just compare that to bernie madoff's bail which was only $10 million after his $50 billion ponzi scheme blew up. bankman-fried just two weeks ago said he was poor. he only had $100,000 in his bank account but somehow he was able to buy his way to short-term freedom where he will be staying with his parents until his next court date. but he shouldn't get too comfortable. of the crypto scam artist is facing eight criminal charges that can put him away for over 150 years. and former executives from ftx are already flipping on him like his exgirlfriend caroline ellison just last night pled guilty to the charges that could put her away for up to 110 years. she is cooperating with the feds to help them incriminate sam bankman-fried. so, is luck running out for the democrats' second largest donor? let's bring in "new york post" business reporter lydia moynahan for more. all right, lydia, what can you tell us new about this? >> sam bankman-fried is still living a pretty good life. he actually flew private from the bahamas to west chester and then today he was let out on $250 million bail. as yo

madoff and and ron --enron we didn't talk about banning major industries. when i hear that i scratch my head and say bitcoin is not the problem. fraud is the problem and fraud can happen in any industry. charles: what about the other part, senator elizabeth warren has a proposal many say would create a surveillance state and that goes against the value proposition of bitcoin. >> i have a lot of fears about cbtcs and efforts to use what happened over the last few months with ftx to justify increased surveillance of software, that doesn't make sense. what elizabeth warren is saying is she would like to expand the definition of money services businesses to include a lot of things that don't make sense and exchanges in the us or money services businesses. her bill would not likely prevent anything we have seen, just gives the government more authority to survey and just try to control the general public and crypto currency. charles: congress had this hearing recently, spf didn't make it, he was arrested before and there were a few lawmakers and the anti-crypto

bernie madoff was secured by his mansions for his bail. recently theranos founder elizabeth holmes had to fork over $500,000. this includes electronic monitoring and restrictions on mobility passport has been confiscated and living with his parents in northern california. his parents co-signed the bond and put up equity in the house as collateral. as for that $250 million bond, that number is actually less impressive when you consider the fact that sam bankman-fried's parents had to guarantee his faefr and put -- behavior and ey in the home. the former federal prosecutor said this is an unsecured bond an empty promise only backed by his parents interest in their home which is what they will lose if he flees >> any word on how he pled to those eight criminal charges that are on the record >> reporter: there was no arraignment because the presiding judge was out. sam bankman-fried has not entered a plea for the charges that should happen the next court hearing on january 3rd in the meantime, he is headed to california it is unclear if he is