-- two ukraine -- i think back to my trip to ukraine. one of the students were killed there. it was a very sad time to be there. there was a lot of talk about people being sent to the front line. i hope the world can come together and make it clear to russia that this is not in their best interest long-term to continue in their aggression toward their neighbors. we don't want to have to be in any sort of war to lead to that sort of escalation. at the same time, it is clear that the region is going to continue to destabilize. we will push closer to some sort of unfortunate conflict that does involve war or casualties at the very least. this is just not in their best interest. the world will have to come together to convince them of that in my opinion. >> thank you. i look forward to working with many of you. we will craft a second countermeasure. >> dr. anthony fauci, director of the national institute of infectious diseases talks about the current state of the pandemic. watch the discussion tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, online

and that's ukraine. must be in his mind if not part of the russian state, then part of russians sphere of influence. and the, and this is, this is and manufactured crisis that has been entirely engineered by vladimir putin . what do you say to that? well, put in may believe that, but we have him throughout the last 2 decades of his rule. russia has not been able to change the cal kilo's, the political calculus, the j political balance in the ukraine in its favor. so in 2000 and just just a brief go back to the history of 2004. the 1st. 1 ukranian might done when russia was interested in one outcome and western states were interested in an other outcome of the election of the presidential elections of that time. and russia was unable to sustain. it's to get it scheduled that elected you shaneka, who was a pro, what more pro western candidates 110 years later. so 10 russia at 10 years to do something about that situation. and yet in 2014, when a new crisis emerged with western powers being on one side of t

to to to start a fire power and by caution in ukraine i mean ukraine should be very careful not to. to create a situation like we had in georgia in 2008 when we had some weeks of fighting in a region of south ossetia and then the georgia decided we will try to liberate as they say the president saakashvili said that region and russia of course was nearby was ready in a standby motos and then the invasion was legitimized so to say yes and this is this is what russia maybe would like to see in ukraine as well russia would like to see ukraine make a mistake and maybe let itself be provoked by by the fighting of the recent weeks and this is this is probably the biggest danger and the biggest challenge for the ukrainian government but i don't see any proof or any any evidence that ukraine might do that because if you if you take a c.n.n. camera team with you you're just trying to show to the world you're trying to use the media ukrainian president is a media medium and he's a media and he used to be a comedian he used to be a television star so that's what he does and what he can what he

putin out of ukraine? it is seven years since moscow seized its aggression with ukraine. mr. biden's phone call with mr. putin said he is not going to put american interests first without pushback. the question is what does this mean for moscow? our panelists include david kramer, senior fellow for human rights and democracy. director of the security studies program of the foreign policy council. ambassador alexander the former u.s. ambassador to moscow. former defense minister of ukraine as well. i would like to begin with a question. can you describe the military situation right now and what do you think moscow will do with a tougher u.s. administration in power? >> thank you. hello, everybody. it is getting more tense in the second half of the last year. we already have four soldiers who were killed and two who have died recently on landmines. every day we record several violations of the main treaty. generally speaking we clearly see things are getting more tense. the question is where it gets to. we can have different scenarios on that. as you know there has been a huge

but actually can be to the detriment of ukraine and even of a sovereign ukraine. so we're going to go take a short break, and then we continue our program or get continue. our discussion on ukraine, stay with r. t coral, driven by dream shaped banks. concur, some of those with dares sinks, we dare to ask with ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing crane. i can go back to jeremy in tulsa. i think we would all agree on this program is that there's a, there's a, a lack of information about what's actually going on in, in, in ukraine because there's something that all of us take for granted. but it's hardly ever mentioned that there is a blueprint, a plan out there to end the internal conflict in ukraine, and it's called the minsk accords. okay. and it's really simple. we could put it on one page. okay. um, but there's scant reference to it. okay. the ukrainian government, what i call official care of signed off on it, but they've never fulfilled it. okay. and then if you read what western news

on one level they are messaging to possibly ukraine or that ukraine needs to recognize -- they want ukraine to recognize that russia is the primary military actor in the region. they are threatening possible invasion to also signal the west will not come to ukraine's aid and ukraine will have to come to russia's understanding. they are also possibly signaling to europe and west that they want to be included in new negotiations and understanding of european architecture. and to better include the russian security interest in these discussions and understanding. possibly in the same way many negotiations happen between the west and soviet union during the cold war. again, i think it is important to understand from the russian perspective i think what they are doing is forcefully reasserting their claim to the west's understanding of russian dominance in the sphere of influence. that is not justifying their approach but it is important to understand the framework they are using and craft the strategies to respond back to the russian claims. michael: thank you, andrew. kat, is there an agreemen

and escalation means for polarization within ukraine. well in fact one of the things that we've seen over the last 7 years is that unification. has not been a polarization and actually much more about unification i want to do want to make one more point in one last point about that they don't think are just so that we realize i mean it's not just a question of russia reacting to nato expansion ukraine is a sovereign country ukraine has been attacked it's 7 percent of its territory has been taken away he illegal it has a right to defend itself defending itself means through alliance this is a logical step this is not a question of you know someone is attacking russia no one's attacking russia russia has attacked and ukraine is defending itself that in fact is a narrative that has. very much united the printing population well i think i'm citing a jump in there the move which the ukrainian president then ski made to close the t.v. station of the pro russian on iraq has he seen victor medved choke won't move. alienate at least those ethnic

things are looking at the moment and glad you could join us up next here on auto cross-talk takes on ukraine. the world is driven by a dream shaped by. the day. we dare to ask. hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle russian officials have borne care of a renewed military assault on the country's east could lead to the end of ukraine itself this is how serious the situation is washington and its nato allies blame moscow for the escalation of tensions will the west back ukraine if kim starts a war. crosstalk in ukraine i'm joined by my guest mary the chefs in london she's a columnist for the independent on foreign affairs in washington we are all rescues and he is the executive vice president of the eurasia center and here in moscow we have gabriel gavin he is a moscow based journalist covering central and eastern europe for a number of outlets including our team our cross talk rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime he wants i always appreciate mary let me go to you 1st here this is a very ominous situation that we're facing right now we ha

hue and cry about what was going on between russia and ukraine has been building rather slowly and i only sort of woke up to it last week that what we were looking at was every day practically every hour we're seeing accusations from london and from washington and from nato russia has embarked on this gigantic arms buildup on the russian side of the ukrainian border and is just waiting to launch a war. to shore up the supposed to russian presence in the east of ukraine either to help the rebels or even to seize territory and possibly even to consolidate some sort of further land bridge into crimea now one of the reasons that i wasn't sort of paying sufficient attention to this is that i couldn't take this seriously that russia would actually want to wage or to embark on military action that would result in any sort of military confrontation in the east of ukraine or anywhere in europe i mean it just seems completely crazy to me yeah but that was the view that you're getting from the for the western capitals yes we're not getting the other side of it which is that. nato has been holdi

probably to divide ukraine into several states and to to create a new ukraine so which would be a russia friendly. i think that's a russian strategy but at the moment on the technical level i think russia is trying to negotiate with america with the new administration of president biden and this is i would say russian style invitation to a conversation we should remember that just a few weeks ago the u.s. president new u.s. president in a television interview. said yes putin is a killer he didn't say the word killer himself but he responded positively to the question and this is something which irritates me putting very much and i think it's played to a certain role in the kremlin's decision to escalate now but the problem is much deeper i think there are several problems in eastern ukraine which putin doesn't like and wants ukraine to move and to yield to russian wishes the west is not behaving like russia would like it to and maybe also putting seize an opportunity in a general jail political. a consolation because in the u.s. we have a new administration which is not quite strong enou

ukraine must stay calm. so let me begin by asking all 3 of you whether you think this is mostly just saber rattling or indeed something more and because in a drawn to your opening statement certainly suggests you see a very real danger of a russian offensive. well not necessarily i think it's saber wrestling and it's you know directive for impressing the west it's a signal to the west and to presidents to lansky from ukraine and. i think russia is trying to build up the stakes and all that to have a better position for further. what is $101.00 for. the eastern ukraine exact as a negotiating card you also said in your opening statement that there must be consequence quinces but the kremlin says look we have every right to move our forces within our own territory these forces are still on russian territory what would you say to that yeah that's not exactly true because within the or c. there are mechanisms and they are blige every participant and every member state to make transparent if you have such movement

but actually can be to the detriment of ukraine and even a sovereign ukraine. so we're going to go take a short break. and when we continue, our program are gonna continue our discussion on ukraine state with our team. ah, ah ah ah mm. as a korea professional sport is much tougher on some than others. and she was a euro hubert meyer by everybody here. so why would somebody believe me? i was just a little girl. the price of very to, to, to achieve really was, was fall, change a read on the paper this morning, usa swimming coach, arrested leslie had sex with a 12 year old girl. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office. i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. and it's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming, is that documentary? see it or naughty way, which we love as adults, is always built on a structure that was created 1st in childhood. so without understanding childhood relationships, it becomes very hard to understand your adult r

it is more than ukraine, but ukraine, of course, is the focus point. that is a sure thing. >> the russian defense minister says u.s. private military companies are plotting provocation using unknown chemical components. how do you see that statement, the background of the conflict. >> this is just cynical propaganda to give a pretext for an invasion. this is by far the most dangerous situation militarily we have seen in europe over the past three decades. i agree with the founder of the silverado accelerator that all sides .2 putin actually preparing to launch an invasion with a tactical endgame of establishing a public state in eastern ukraine and creating language to crimea, but a more strategic endgame, and a russian colleague alluded to that, to establish some sort of putin doctrine that no country of the former soviet union ever has the idea of trying to join nato without fearing invasion, and that seems to be the name of the game from the kremlin side. >> one of the arguments advanced by president putin is basically it is about time to stop those

in nato market what kind of ukraine i mean ukraine without the donbass ukraine without crimea i mean and then that is a violation of nato zone rules because a country cannot become a member of it has territorial disputes with its neighbors here nato is probably couldn't break its own rules and rewrite them in a it's i don't put that past them but if there is a military conflict it is not going to be the don back to the meat maybe it's all the way to kind of cough ok i mean because if you look at it from the russian side i mean if this is how you want to play then we're going to great we're going to look after our security interests i mean of this look at what happened in in georgia in 2008 i mean silva said to you it was liberated then russian forces went all the way down to gori not to occupy it not to keep it but to knock out all of the sensitive n.s.a. equipment that was there as well estimated worth be a $1000000000.00 n.s.a. had a real headache with that one there i mean what's a history does repeat itself at times and i see this here to some i mean what kind of rump state are w

a hot wall between ukraine and russia. ukraine. it's an ancient and proud land. with a rich history filled with much beauty heroism and sacrifice. ukraine is a border land. a place where east meets west. this is the flag of ukraine the blue represents the sky the gold its seemingly endless fields of wheat. ukraine is a prize many have sought. and much blood spilled in the quest to possess it. ukraine has been the pathway for western powers as they attempted to conquer the east. in world war one. and world war 2. and every time the ukrainian people ended up paying the highest price for these grand games of power. history doesn't repeat but it surely rhymes said mark twain. if one looks closely at the history of ukraine one will notice many rhymes. being surrounded by stronger powers ukraine has needed a lot of cunning to survive and they are they truly mastered with time is the art of changing sides. in the middle of the 17th century ukrainian leader dunn who. broke a truce agreement made with poland siding more powerful russia. just over 50 years later as the rus

and then russia last ukraine in 2014 your response that yes and also ukraine. why? because which is that neutral you create before 2014 majority of ukrainians believed in our french friendship partnership with russia. supporters of the go with the side store and next crania, that's what happened. basically if people do, you can pay up to what saddam hussein, so the same set weight is ours to which it is saying we're saying, you know, korea is our so i have a next, by the way, despite the fact that he's in a muslim natives to korea, but their views were totally ignored by, by russia. so yes, as a result of russia's actions last, ukraine. that's through what we are free or now is not only lunch military offense. we also free over so called limited military offense because push and may try to cease one or 2 strategically important. see, this is then you create like you did in february 2015 when, despite the cease fire, despite all the promises which russia di to invest and partners, russia can i, you know, i could do a regular and see if i could just jump in here for a

these of the ukraine go ahead. it's hard to tell because nato's is on the one hand supporting ukraine, giving it up, market back in giving it to lexie backing on the other hand, making it very clear that it's not actually willing to defend it militarily. so we had mr. bloomington of the other day saying that if a rationalist attack, ukraine of united states will put heavy sanctions on russia because sanctions are not a military response. because of course, ukraine is not a member of later. so, on the one hand, the c nato, kind of egging ukraine on a burden and lending it support and on the other hand, backing off as well, which is probably no desperately good combination. alexander, i can help, i get the feeling that nato, and particularly the leader of the, of the alliance. the united states wants some kind of military conflict because at the end of the day, this is a inter ukraine conflict that needs to be resolved. and there's actually a roadmap for that. it's called the minsk accords here at which of course wes

obviously with ukraine. i think the statement as i said earlier by chairman of the eu commission this morning about the eu's strength of conviction with regard to the potential need to deploy more and far harsher sanctions this morning speaks to the unity that we are building as did the very strong statements we had from nato when secretary was there last week and, again, the president is continuing that diplomacy today as we all are at every level. >> ambassador, president putin and foreign minister lavrov have repeatedly indicated that they seek to deny any potential path to nato membership for ukraine and other eastern european country. does the administration view this demand as a valid issue for negotiation? president biden made it crystal clear to president putin today that the issue who joins nato is an issue for nato to decide, an issue for applicant countries to decide that no other outside power will or may have a veto or a vote in those decisions. >> thank you, ambassador. i have no further questi

the ukraine. society different. circumstance but i would cite just 3 but the ukrainian government is likely to to launch a full ask france if we've we've seen the head of ukrainian army on several occasions in the past couple months admit that any attempt to do this would involve massive civilian casualties so so do you actually seem to be aware but you know that they can't do this very easily without getting huge numbers of people but of course when they do so that will prompt a russian intervention so i think that's sort of what the fall of the coffin there paul that we're going to go to a hard break and after about a hard break we'll continue our discussion on ukraine tensions state with arkie. when you should look into. this infusion new initiative because when you look at the worst we're just going forward from 100. choices you just sort of. think it was national. petroleum i thought. it would be. what it was you're going to pull. their go pull support scoop what are these critics one of these political. becaus

alienate at least those ethnic russians in ukraine or of ukraine is of ethnic russian origin that is a polarization thought not. first of all ethnic russians in ukraine according to the friend of the previous and the very reason now that the now that the crimea has been annexed and is not counted as part of ukraine now isn't the eastern region the boss of not the jenners part of ukraine so that we understand ethnic russians in ukraine make up less than 5 percent population so alienating a group of less than 5 percent of the population may be of course problematic from the point of view of humanity humanitarian pressure but we need to understand 95 percent of the population is in support of ukrainian unity and sees russia as an aggressor with respect to the 3 channel yes that's true but in fact those 3 channels were outlets for basically money laundering of illegal activities by this like victim of the q who in fact was a basically a family member of what you would want be laundering money from illegal activities within ukraine including financing separateness on these being funny so

in nato market what kind of ukraine i mean ukraine without the donbass ukraine without crimea i mean and then that is a violation of nato zone rules because a country cannot become a member of it has territorial disputes with its neighbors here nato is probably couldn't break its own rules and rewrite them in a and it's i don't put that past them but if there is a military conflict it is not going to be the donbass the meat maybe it's all the way to cut it off ok i mean because if you look at it from the russian side. i mean if this is how you want to play then we're going to great we're going to look after our security interests i mean of this look at what happened in in georgia in 2008 i mean silva said to you it was liberated then russian forces went all the way down to gori not to occupy it not to keep it but to knock out all of the sensitive n.s.a. equipment that was there as well estimated worth of your $1000000000.00 n.s.a. had a real headache with that one there i mean what's the history does repeat itself at times and i see this here to some i mean what kind of rump state ar

between ukraine and russia. oh the the low the little. 11 . 11 cut. ukraine. it's an ancient and proud land. with a rich history filled with much beauty heroism and sacrifice. ukraine is a border land. a place where east meets west. this is the flag of ukraine the blue represents the sky the gold its seemingly endless fields of wheat. ukraine is a prize many have sought. and much blood spilled in the quest to possess it. ukraine has been the pathway for western powers as they attempted to conquer the east. in world war one. and world war 2. and every time the ukrainian people ended up paying the highest price for these grand games of power. history doesn't repeat but it surely rhymes said mark 20. if one looks closely at the history of ukraine one will notice many rhymes. being surrounded by stronger powers ukraine has needed a lot of cunning to survive and the art they truly mastered with time is the art of changing sides. in the middle of the 17th century ukrainian leader dunhill netsky broke a truce agreement made with poland siding more powerful russia. ju

ukraine you know ukraine's defeated fine but now now this is known they can be no further resistance to getting ukraine into nato and i think america is a play of a dangerous game have a set a state game but i think that that's what they like it because there's no calls at all on the part of the americans 1st for any sort of even handed approach of a deescalation they need looking for this conflict if they need to how do you know and again you know what the western audiences are not very well informed i mean there was a b. escalation process we had the normandy format we had the the men's one and to agreements were russians a guarantee for us and it's very very simple and straight forward actually you can you can it's like you can put it on one page so straight forward here and when there is a call to burn deescalation we didn't because this is an intra ukraine comp like we have to remind everybody ok when in ukraine. isn't meaning the dumbass as we call it here on this program the proposal is this is to decentralize in ukraine where they can stay they can stay with within the border

the well being of ukraine, including, i would argue, even the, the integrity of ukraine. that's all incidental interest of containing russia. well, i mean, nickel, iowa, and the 2nd part of the program, i really want to talk about that because some very interesting scenarios out there . but as you point out of absolutely nothing to do with your grade, but actually can be to the detriment of ukraine and even a sovereign ukraine. so we're going to go take a short break and when we continue, our program are continue our discussion on ukraine state with ah, l look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such orders that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence at the point, obviously is to race trust rather than fear i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with a robot must protect its own existence with back i just financial survival guy. when customers go buy, you reduce t

and also ukraine. why? because which is that neutral you create before 2014 majority of ukrainians believed in our french friendship partnership with russia. supporters of the go with the side store and next crania, that's what happened basically if people do compared to what saddam hussein so that the same set weight is ours to which it is saying we're saying, you know, korea is our so i have a next by the way, despite the fact that he's in a muslim natives to korea, but their views were totally ignored by, by russia. so yes, as a result of russia's actions last, ukraine, that's through what we are free or now is not only lunch military offense. we also free over so called limited military offense because pollution may try to cease one or 2 strategically important. see, this is the new create, like the in february, 2015 when, despite the cease fire, despite all the promises which russia di to invest and partners, russia can i, you know, if i could do a regular and see if i could just jump in here for a mom

she does have options in ukraine, and quite frankly, ukraine should never have been allowed to enter the west or beach in the 1st place . the dangers emanates at the end of 2013 in ukraine, and for russia were very obvious, but that is under the bridge, so to speak. the only way that you crane can be saved is for russia, so you can clinical action. otherwise, the day will come when you crane and night. so people could see people very quickly . people, people could say that ukraine can only join night. so if the situation in the crime and the dumbass is result of, quite frankly here, could agree to read through in its own way by if forget about the crimea. if it gets about the for the blue and on it, which has lost. and then in that scenario, ukraine will be free to join night. so the way it all, by the way, folks, you know, it doesn't sound right when it comes out that when does it roll off? the b u. k and the united states are black. the pounds because they're not florida, but they're, they're met same. i mean, the cynic in me tells me, is then kind of echoing, when you said, you me

ukraine must stay calm. so let me begin by asking all 3 of you whether you think this is mostly just saber rattling or indeed something more and because in a drawn through to your opening statement certainly suggests you see a very real danger of a russian offensive. well not necessarily i think it's saber wrestling and it's yeah directed for impressing the west it's a sick nod to the west and presidents a lansky from ukraine and. i think russia is trying to build up the stakes and all that to have a better position for further. orders $100.00 m. and for. these and ukraine exact as a negotiating card you also said in your opening statement that there must be consequences crisis but the kremlin says look we have every right to move our forces within our own territory these forces are still on russian territory what would you say to that yeah that's not exactly true because within the o c there are mechanisms and they are blige every participant and every member state to make transparent if you have such movem

can do for the ukraine. that was not a very correct sentence but in general, the president is going with the classical issues. the first is the military support and many of those issues that andrew just named. more javelins or other type ofmf weapons but something physical. the second, it not only has the opportunity to partnership it has to be full support within nato. hungary is blocking the ukraine natoship, but that is also support against the russian federation as diplomatic. mission federation. what is interesting is that it was sanctioned. continuing the policy and the previous administration of sanctions against north korea. the issue is that it is financial. [indiscernible] while the signals confirm the new ambassador to the ukraine of the united states, we are waiting a few days that that will be officially announced. the minister of finance will be the new ambassador. the idea is definitely that the main talks she is given is to get as much support, financial support, as possible. we do not see a

but it wasn't quite so simple for ukraine the truth is ukraine has never been a united country. when world war 2 broke out a large part of western ukraine's population welcomed the german soldiers as liberators from the rich. certainly forced upon them soviet rule and openly collaborated with the germans. the real scale of collaboration was not announced for many years after the war but we now know that whole divisions and battalions were formed by ukrainian collaborators such as s.s. galaxy and not to go and roll into battalions. just in the beginning of the war more than $80000.00 people from college cina region voluntarily enrolled into division s.s. galad seen in a month and a half notorious for their extreme cruelty towards the polish jewish and russian people on the territory of ukraine. members of these military groups came mostly from the organization of ukrainian nationalists b.-o. un founded in 1929 this organization had an ultimate goal of creating an ethnically pure independent ukraine and considered terror an acceptable tool for achieving their ends their official f

in nato market what kind of ukraine i mean ukraine without the donbass ukraine without crimea i mean and then that is a violation of nato zone rules because a country cannot become a member of it has territorial disputes with its neighbors here nato is probably couldn't break its own rules and rewrite them in a it's i don't put that past them but if there is a military conflict it is not going to be the don back to meet maybe it's all the way to kind of cough ok i mean because if you look at it from the russian side i mean if this is how you want to play then we're going to great we're going to look after our security interest of let's look at what happened in in georgia in 2008 i mean silva said to you it was liberated then russian forces went all the way down to gori not to occupy it not to keep it but to knock out all of the sensitive and as a. quip and was there as well estimated worth of your $1000000000.00 and if they have real headache with that one there i mean what's the history does repeat itself at times and i see this here too so i mean what kind of rump state are we talk

and one of them is ukraine. washington to we let this drive to admit you crying to nato is a red line for moscow. something is going to have to give cross sucking ukraine. i'm joined by my guest nichol, i petro in kingston. he is a professor of political science at the university of rhode island in tulsa. we have jeremy whose motto he is managing, editor of colbert action magazine and in london we crossed to earns read. he is a political analyst, as well as a guest expert at the russia international affairs council. right gentlemen, crosshatch, rules and effect. that means you can jump in any time you want. now it's appreciate nichol. i let me me go to you. i mean, there's so much confusion in the air here for me. um we had a summit of sorts with zalinski and biden over the summer, and the read out was kind of a cool read out, you know? yeah, yeah, i'll make it into nato. but you know, there's no rush here, and then, you know, last week we have, or the last few new cycles, we have the secretary defense. he goes

in nato market what kind of ukraine i mean ukraine without the donbass ukraine without crimea i mean and then that is a violation of nato zone rules because a country cannot become a member of it has territorial disputes with its neighbors there nato is probably couldn't break its own rules and rewrite them in a it's i don't put that past them but if there is a military conflict it is not going to be the don basta meet maybe it's all the way to cut off ok i mean because if you look at it from the russian side i mean if this is how you want to play then we're going to great we're going to look after our security interests of this look at what happened in in georgia in 2008 i mean said to you it was liberated then russian forces went all the way down to gori not to occupy it not to keep it but to knock out all of the sensitive n.s.a. 80 quid and that was there as well estimated worth of your $1000000000.00 n.s.a. had a real headache with that one there i mean what's the history does repeat itself at times and i see this here to some i mean what kind of rump state are we talking about w

and may i simply say, may god bless the people of ukraine. thank you very, very much for all those driven by drink, shaped by centers are those with airs. sinks. we dare to ask, ah, ah michael, your whole measure. but anyway, i think when i supervision sort of japan here, next up is the zillow. news to to know was, are colors have been you know, there's more does them are still going to say is korean and there's a lesson smith. let me read who folder that answers. there's a sorry, hello. i think you spoke to you not sure of present bushera scott sure. may move them up though. i'm assuming they're both great and if it was about to go for burkle cannot hear as wish i respect a new sort of mystic another vehicle. do a shoe chip condense if i'm supposed to help her in to discuss osha thread with her mother. little grandmother to say who the president bush was not being entirely sincere. immediately after the outbreak of the cold war, the united states actively supported ukrainian nationalist organizations. the united states gave refuge to ukraini

policy towards ukraine became aggressive. all internal political scandals were used to apply pressure on coachman case in point. the murder of the journalist, ga, ga, ga, in which cushman was accused to have had involvement. but why was it a sa then? the 2nd is movement or korean, with cushman? ah, why people were not happy? i personally, beth, correct me if i'm wrong, i personally doubt to that. so it was because of the gun got the case. it sounds just since the kids in the mccarthy, she and philip actually hope to watch the show. luggage was on my done. m. o to go to say what year, what year they it's a blown out the euclid, the up less of slow and the is, you know, bluestorm mcgee, this is melissa castillo, kim, look, i'm with the o. u t. c at all. the switches, her navarro law. do, little sca put this in the campaign ukraine without coachman was the 1st of a series of spontaneous uprisings on the part of the ukrainian populace. and for being spontaneous uprisings, they were very well organized. indeed i can use young. yea

in nato market what kind of ukraine i mean ukraine without the donbass ukraine without crimea i mean and then that is a violation of nato zone rules because a country cannot become a member of it has territorial disputes with its neighbors here nato is probably couldn't break its own rules and rewrite them in a it's i don't put that past them but if there is a military conflict it is not going to be the donbass the meat maybe it's all the way to cut off ok i mean because if you look at it from the russian side i mean if this is how you want to play then we're going to great we're going to look after our security interests of this look at what happened in in georgia in 2008 i mean said to you it was liberated then russian forces went all the way down to gori not to occupy it not to keep it but to knock out all of the sensitive and as a quid and was there as an estimated worth a $1000000000.00 and if they have a real headache with that one there i mean what's the history does repeat itself at times and i see this here too so i mean what kind of ramps. state we're talking about when it

in nato market what kind of ukraine i mean ukraine without the donbass ukraine without crimea i mean and then that is a violation of nato zone rules because a country cannot become a member of it has territorial disputes with its neighbors here nato is probably couldn't break its own rules and rewrite them in a and it's i don't put that past them but if there is a military conflict it is not going to be the donbass the meat maybe it's all the way to cut it off ok i mean because if you look at it from the russian side i mean if this is how you want to play then we're going to great we're going to look after our security interests of let's look at what happened in in georgia in 2008 i mean said to you it was liberated then russian forces went all the way down to gori not to occupy it not to keep it but to knock out all of the sensitive and as a quip and was there as were estimated worth to be a $1000000000.00 and if they had real headache with that one there i mean what's the history does repeat itself at times and i see this here too so i mean what kind of ramps. state are we talking

the ukraine. to sign a different. circumstance but i would cite just 3 but the ukrainian government is likely to to launch a full ask france if we've we've seen the head of ukrainian army on several occasions in the past couple months admit that any attempt to do this would involve massive civilian casualties so so they do actually seem to be aware that you know they can't do this very easily without killing huge numbers of people but of course when they do so that will prompt a russian intervention so i think that's sort of what. their poll that we're going to go to a hard break and after about a hard break we'll continue our discussion on ukraine tensions stay with arkie. those who can the speculators and those are now the ruling elites of the world are the speculators. they can create bubbles it could be used cars this week it could be. next week it could be islands somewhere in the pacific the week after that those are bubbles within a secular collapse and ultimately when the everything bubble collapses then we ha

as a conflict involving russia and ukraine this is false there is a road map to resolve ukraine's internal strife and it's called the minsk accords russia is not the problem but nato expansion is. talking ukraine i'm joined by my guest paul robinson in ottawa he is a professor in the graduate school of public and international affairs at the university of ottawa in chicago we have because he is a 19 nato analyst and contributor to antiwar dot com and in budapest we cross the board said he has a podcast at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and run. all right gentlemen cross in the fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate rick let me go to you 1st in chicago 1st of all i want to compliment you on your amazing work at antiwar dot com i think you're a very important voice and resource for people really want to understand what's going on in ukraine and you do it exemplary work there so you know one of the things that really irritates me in looking at western media coverage of what's going on in ukraine is that they frame it as a conflict between russia and

these of the ukraine go ahead. it's hard to tell because it is on the one hand supporting ukraine, giving it up, mac it back in giving it to lexi backing on the other hand makes it very clear that it's not actually willing to defend it militarily. so we had a mr. lincoln of the other day saying that if a rationalist attack, he'd crane of united states would put heavy sanctions on russia, medical sanctions and not a military response. because of course, ukraine is not a member of nato. so, on the one hand, the c nato kind of egging ukraine on a bit and, and lending it support and on the other hand, backing off as well, which is probably not desperately good combination. alexander, i can help, i get the feeling that nato, and particularly the leader of the, of the alliance. the united states wants some kind of military conflict because at the end of the day, this is entry, ukraine conflict that needs to be resolved. and there's actually a roadmap for that. it's called the minsk accords here, which of course western d

special representative for ukraine between 20172019 under former u.s. president trump he took part in negotiations involving russia to secure a cease fire in the breakaway regions of eastern ukraine ambassador it's good to see you again it's good to have you on the program again how would you answer those people who are what is vladimir putin's in the game with ukraine. well i think it's a it's a don't mean to attack the question but it's a misunderstanding to think that curtain thinks in terms of endgames putin thinks in terms of position how does he amass power and influence and how does your private over time opportunistically without any end in sight and i think what he's done with the accumulation of military force here is to demonstrate that he has substantial military capability and the political will to act if he wants to and he's trying to demonstrate on the opposite side that the west is not willing to use force and is not willing to match that and therefore ukraine had better watch out so what do you make then of russia's announcement that it

officials have borne care of a renewed military assault on the country's east could lead to the end of ukraine itself this is how serious the situation is washington and its nato allies blame moscow for the escalation of tensions will the west back ukraine if kim starts a war. cross-talk in ukraine i'm joined by my guest mary the chefs in london she's a columnist for the independent on foreign affairs in washington we are all rescues and he is the executive vice president of the eurasia center and here in moscow we have gabriel gavin he is a moscow based journalist covering central and eastern europe for a number of outlets including our team are across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate mary let me go to you 1st here this is a very ominous situation that we're facing right now we have 10 tensions are escalating the rhetoric from kiev is quite harsh moscow is reacting and nato allies are reacting as well here what's going on here i mean who's driving this is this is it washington is an accommodation of bowl and what about the timing the e

it's not ukraine, russia conflict, it's an intro ukraine conflict and we all of this jingle wasted talk. russia had no choice but to react within its own borders here. so, i mean, everybody talks about security, but it doesn't russia have the right to talk about its security as well. go ahead. partial certainly have the right talk about security, but russia has seized the crimea and is sent forces in the eastern ukraine. why, why did that have been? how would i did that happen? bid russia over throw the democratically elected government to be crane in 2014? is that his fault? whose fault is that? who created ality? what created that reality was? the fact that the ukraine was coming closer to the europe, ian union, and russia years, a democratic rochelle went through the government on its borders. rochelle, been through the government. well, no, i, i disagree. i disagree with your characterization there. i think what i said, sire in the great, you, yeah, well, what's happening there in the upgrade is that president fierce having a democratic and functioning ukraine on this order is one t

say ukraine might win 2—1,- was speaking with my heart, i would say ukraine might win 2—1,but- say ukraine might win 2—1, but england — say ukraine might win 2—1, but england is— say ukraine might win 2—1, but england is a _ say ukraine might win 2—1, but england is a very— say ukraine might win 2—1, but england is a very strong - say ukraine might win 2—1, but england is a very strong team, say ukraine might win 2—1, but. england is a very strong team, so say ukraine might win 2—1,but- england is a very strong team, so i think— england is a very strong team, so i think ukraine — england is a very strong team, so i think ukraine will— england is a very strong team, so i think ukraine will score _ england is a very strong team, so i think ukraine will score at - england is a very strong team, so i think ukraine will score at least - think ukraine will score at least one goal. — think ukraine will score at least one goal. but— think ukraine will score at least one goal. but i— think ukraine will score at least one goal, but i think— think ukraine will scor

can do for the ukraine. that was not a very correct sentence but in general, the president is going with the classical issues. the first is the military support and many of those issues that andry just named. more javelins or other type of weapons but something physical. the second, it not only has the opportunity to partnership it has to be full support within nato. hungary is blocking the ukraine natoship, but that is also support against the russian federation as diplomatic. sanctions are the first and foremost and what is interesting is in the same basket as sanctions, president zelensky is continuing the policy of the previous administration of sanctions against north korea. the issue is that it is financial. [indiscernible] while the signals confirm the new ambassador to the ukraine of the united states, we are waiting a few days that that will be officially announced. the minister of finance will be the new ambassador. the idea is definitely that the main talks she is given is to get as much support,

this is ukraine, nato. we stay on our turf and work with our allies rather than speak for our allies. mr. putin has made a huge investment. that brings a need for recouping from that investment. he is going to want to get the demands he has made. i believe he will continue to use this moment he has manufactured and the power on the ground until he gets those. i do believe he is taking a look at the cost. finally, i would say again, we have to be careful not to reward bad behavior. we need to avoid playing this game with ukrainian chips or nato tips. we need to stay in our lane and not sell out our allies and bring along our allies and others and involve them in the things we do. we have to focus on concurrent progress and get a seat at the table in my humble opinion and finally we need to remember the rest of the world is watching for the results of this bad behavior. >> thank you so much, general. andrew, great to have your perspective from kyiv. if putin invades, what would he likely take and what is his

, but actually can be to the detriment of ukraine and even of a sovereign ukraine. so we're going to go take a short break and then we continue our program. rog, it's continue. our discussion on ukraine, stay with ah, the british and american governments have off destroy personnel to that individual of by scientific means. this is how one doctor's theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against the prisoners deemed a danger to the state. that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation, psychological torture, this year, disseminated within the u. s. intelligence community, and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years. and how the victim say they still live with the consequences today. where empowering ourselves to be more issues were quicker with our transactions. we can make mobile payments from our sons. the truth is that every device is in potential entry point for security attack. i think you got but oh, i didn't manage that clear with calm that and i thought i'm going to change anything but only eventually there's malware

as a conflict involving russia and ukraine this is false there is a road map to resolve ukraine's and turn. right and it's called the minsk accords russia is not the problem but nato expansion is. cross-talk in ukraine i'm joined by my guest paul robinson an auto he is a professor in the graduate school of public and international affairs at the university of ottawa in chicago we have because if he is a 19 nato analyst and contributor to antiwar dot com and in budapest we cross the board said you only he has a podcast at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and rumble all right gentlemen cross in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate rick let me go to you 1st in chicago 1st of all i want to compliment you on your amazing work at antiwar dot com i think you are a very important voice and resource for people really want to understand what's going on in ukraine and you do it exemplary work there so you know one of the things that really irritates me in looking at western media coverage of what's going on in ukraine is that they frame it as a confl

ukraine and crimea ukraine that's. the many of ukrainian nationalists in the west some stall in the me since the ukraine. great and more recently benson it's become a kind of a passionate identity that. has to be. international fact it's the. national rivalries and this integration. so we have this problem is people saying with some extent in the political situation after an election suddenly these relatively small numbers smashmouth quite well on that. very question become key players again because they are on the streets where people have to work when people are also with the police dissolution they'll feel like demonstrate exactly who's demonstrate. and so we have a sense included to let. it's their election and now he's back playing with the oligarchs foreign funding the i.m.f. from there and so on and all of that in the end is not actually going to really encourage him during memories ukraine conte to suffer yeah the sad about the matter is that people don't want to recognize particularly policymakers on the west

, and he knows ukraine very well in those forms across in the ukraine. so he understands the great, i would say. so what we need also to understand is that basically we look, this is politics, you know, and we don't know what exactly who to do as bottle said. so putting may be only just, you know, increasing stakes in a gamble, but what he would like to receive, he is then he will decrease the stays and he would like to receive something in exchange. that's the whole idea. that's what happened in spring 2002 springs this year because i believe, why would you increase tension? is to push through non stream to. so basically he paid a large armament to build up on the board. the only claim that he was drawn, you said ok, you see, i'm not going to war less push for north street instead. so that's what i would like to have. i guess i hope the president biden and his administration would they do understand will put in one's own, they would bet you great look points and will be announced. piece was ukraine. if you grant could be too late. if you grade accepts,