1 00:00:13,84 --> 00:00:20,12 Hello welcome to going deeper My name is Marsalis clove and today my guest is Russ 2 00:00:20,13 --> 00:00:25,74 Vernon Jones this is going to be a two part interview Russ is 3 00:00:25,75 --> 00:00:31,37 a long time immersed resident and was principal in the school system for twenty one 4 00:00:31,38 --> 00:00:36,94 years between the ears of one nine hundred eighty seven and two thousand first at 5 00:00:36,95 --> 00:00:43,73 Palm elementary school and then for River School. Addressing Racism in our schools 6 00:00:43,74 --> 00:00:45,04 and in our town is 7 00:00:45,05 --> 00:00:51,97 a lifelong passion for us certainly one that he's very active in right now he 8 00:00:51,98 --> 00:00:56,25 is Cofa Cilla Tator of the group coming together who have been hosting 9 00:00:56,29 --> 00:01:02,75 a series of talks and films for the greater community to work on issues and to talk 10 00:01:02,76 --> 00:01:04,56 about these issues together as 11 00:01:04,57 --> 00:01:11,56 a community and before we get started I also just wanted to comment that today 12 00:01:11,57 --> 00:01:18,21 we are taping this the day after the grand jury the grand jury decision in Ferguson 13 00:01:18,52 --> 00:01:24,49 and many people are protesting the outcome of that decision today and it feels sort 14 00:01:24,50 --> 00:01:30,96 of timely to be talking about race issues and racism in Amherst and in our own 15 00:01:30,97 --> 00:01:37,63 community on this day so I would like to welcome Russ thank you for being 16 00:01:37,64 --> 00:01:44,45 here thank you more so given that you're coming and. Let's see so before we 17 00:01:44,46 --> 00:01:51,33 get started in the sort of the depths of the conversation about race issues and 18 00:01:51,34 --> 00:01:54,69 racism I wanted to ask you to talk 19 00:01:54,70 --> 00:02:00,97 a little bit first about your childhood and what. In your 20 00:02:00,98 --> 00:02:07,23 past why what sort of foundational things happened in your childhood that made you 21 00:02:07,45 --> 00:02:14,15 take this path and to be so involved in these issues before I go to that 22 00:02:14,16 --> 00:02:19,86 question let me just say I I do find it hard braking that our nation is faced with 23 00:02:19,87 --> 00:02:25,40 another situation where yet another an armed young black man has been shot by 24 00:02:25,41 --> 00:02:31,13 police or vigilantes. And Justice does not seem to be being done. 25 00:02:32,40 --> 00:02:36,57 And I know that a great many African-Americans 26 00:02:36,58 --> 00:02:43,55 a great many of people color and white people are in pain. About this. But 27 00:02:43,56 --> 00:02:50,44 I am. I'm it's important to me that Mike Brown Smothers 28 00:02:50,45 --> 00:02:55,39 said you know what's what matters is that we come together and work to change 29 00:02:55,40 --> 00:03:02,01 things so that this kind of thing doesn't happen. So how did I get to 30 00:03:02,02 --> 00:03:03,61 be you know where this is 31 00:03:03,62 --> 00:03:09,96 a passion of mine yeah I'm not sure I know the answer to that question but as I've 32 00:03:09,97 --> 00:03:14,14 reflected on it I. I went to church as 33 00:03:14,15 --> 00:03:18,79 a young child and I remember you know hearing that everyone is 34 00:03:18,80 --> 00:03:21,77 a child of God and I sometimes say I was 35 00:03:21,78 --> 00:03:28,38 a quite literal child I thought they meant everyone. And while I got 36 00:03:28,78 --> 00:03:32,64 the neighborhood I grew up in was initially an all white neighborhood and became 37 00:03:32,65 --> 00:03:37,27 racially integrated during the time I was there and I saw some of the struggles in 38 00:03:37,28 --> 00:03:43,26 my church and in my school as they became racially integrated but I also was very 39 00:03:43,27 --> 00:03:48,15 fortunate I got to go to school with people of different races and I got to have 40 00:03:48,16 --> 00:03:50,34 friends my best friend and I school was 41 00:03:50,35 --> 00:03:57,06 a. Young man of color and I think it really affected my 42 00:03:57,07 --> 00:04:03,09 sense of what was possible in terms of relationships. And and what matters. 43 00:04:05,58 --> 00:04:07,46 And then you know I was 44 00:04:07,47 --> 00:04:13,40 a conscientious objector to the Vietnam War and my alternative service of the 45 00:04:13,41 --> 00:04:19,74 conscientious objector was to work in the welfare department in Pittsburgh. And I 46 00:04:19,75 --> 00:04:26,49 worked in the black. Hill district. And you know lots more relationships 47 00:04:26,50 --> 00:04:33,00 there and. Was part of an organizing project where we the Welfare Rights 48 00:04:33,01 --> 00:04:39,84 Organization and caseworkers were going to use together to oppose welfare cuts and 49 00:04:39,85 --> 00:04:45,01 I think we had the first ever picket line there was shared by black welfare 50 00:04:45,02 --> 00:04:49,70 recipients and white welfare case workers marching together interesting and this 51 00:04:49,71 --> 00:04:54,85 was in Pittsburgh and I was in Pittsburgh. So the sense that it is possible to come 52 00:04:54,86 --> 00:04:59,00 together and make a difference has it's been there in my mind for 53 00:04:59,01 --> 00:05:02,92 a long time and then you know getting to be an elementary school principal in 54 00:05:02,93 --> 00:05:06,22 Amherst is just an amazing experience because there's 55 00:05:06,23 --> 00:05:12,74 a tremendous support for the schools in Amherst. And yet all of the issues. The 56 00:05:12,75 --> 00:05:18,36 town and the nation all come to the elementary school and I just got lots of 57 00:05:18,37 --> 00:05:24,69 opportunities to. Hear people's concerns to try things to make 58 00:05:24,70 --> 00:05:30,69 mistakes to work with some wonderful teachers and looting some teachers of color 59 00:05:30,70 --> 00:05:35,41 who were really part of my education. Over 60 00:05:35,42 --> 00:05:42,04 a course of many years and when you first came to work in the schools 61 00:05:42,61 --> 00:05:47,82 did you notice back then I'm trying to get some institutional memory about what was 62 00:05:47,83 --> 00:05:53,03 the tone What was the atmosphere around race issues this was like one nine hundred 63 00:05:53,07 --> 00:05:58,01 eighty one eighty five what year I moved to town in eighty one line became 64 00:05:58,02 --> 00:06:02,81 principal one poem in eighty seven and I was there three years yeah and during the 65 00:06:02,82 --> 00:06:05,57 time I was there was when the N.W. C.P. 66 00:06:05,57 --> 00:06:12,28 . Began to initiate their suit against the school district around tracking. And I 67 00:06:12,29 --> 00:06:14,05 got involved in developing 68 00:06:14,06 --> 00:06:18,41 a revision of the social studies curriculum for the Amherst and home schools 69 00:06:18,96 --> 00:06:22,67 together. So there was 70 00:06:22,68 --> 00:06:29,36 a lot of and with that revision based on this lawsuit to still OK they were 71 00:06:29,37 --> 00:06:36,21 separate were separate OK. But. I think people were more willing to look at issues 72 00:06:36,22 --> 00:06:39,94 of race because they were up you know in the community as a result of 73 00:06:39,95 --> 00:06:46,53 a lawsuit. But you know Pelham was almost entirely white school 74 00:06:47,27 --> 00:06:52,80 or had more students of color. When I first got the Ford river I remember one of my 75 00:06:52,81 --> 00:06:56,76 early newsletters I put out to the parent community that I wanted us to be 76 00:06:56,77 --> 00:07:00,48 a school that did not accept racism and where we would take 77 00:07:00,49 --> 00:07:07,28 a stand against incidents of racism that occurred. And sure enough 78 00:07:07,69 --> 00:07:13,39 families of color students of color began to tell me about things that happened. 79 00:07:15,58 --> 00:07:18,19 And I you know I was still 80 00:07:18,20 --> 00:07:23,19 a fairly young principal I wasn't sure what to do about all this but fortunately 81 00:07:23,20 --> 00:07:25,90 some good people came to my aid we formed 82 00:07:25,91 --> 00:07:30,41 a committee that involved staff the first group of staff members and then some got 83 00:07:30,42 --> 00:07:31,87 some parents involved so we had 84 00:07:31,88 --> 00:07:34,74 a lots of perspectives at the table one over time we spent 85 00:07:34,75 --> 00:07:39,55 a lot of time talking with each other what were our general guidelines going to be 86 00:07:40,26 --> 00:07:45,08 and then we'd have an incident occur we deal with it and then we process it 87 00:07:45,09 --> 00:07:48,07 afterwards and say what did we learn from that and you know is there something we 88 00:07:48,08 --> 00:07:53,06 should should do differently now when you know if there's one experiences when you 89 00:07:53,07 --> 00:07:59,52 say that an incident occurred and we deal with it. What was that like the 90 00:07:59,53 --> 00:08:06,40 dealing with it because I think that's where there's this gap lately you know what 91 00:08:06,41 --> 00:08:13,29 we what were some of the initial ways to take guided to rust. Well one of the big 92 00:08:13,30 --> 00:08:17,66 questions that came up was I mean sometimes a student would use 93 00:08:18,07 --> 00:08:20,03 a racial expletive or 94 00:08:20,04 --> 00:08:24,24 a putdown toward another student and one of the questions was how punitive to be 95 00:08:24,82 --> 00:08:26,28 yeah and we had 96 00:08:26,29 --> 00:08:29,84 a lot of discussions about what's it mean to be an educational institution What's 97 00:08:29,85 --> 00:08:33,90 it mean to try to bring students along to 98 00:08:33,91 --> 00:08:39,34 a deeper understanding of why why racism is wrong why that kind of thing is is so 99 00:08:39,35 --> 00:08:44,22 hurtful. But you know it was always 100 00:08:44,23 --> 00:08:49,27 a question of you know how many children do you interview do you always call 101 00:08:49,28 --> 00:08:56,06 parents. But we finally came to some principles that we would always call all the 102 00:08:56,07 --> 00:09:01,42 parents of all the children involved directly involved. And one of the things that 103 00:09:01,43 --> 00:09:06,62 I hadn't figured out all at the beginning but became clear over time was that 104 00:09:06,63 --> 00:09:13,01 children who witnessed these things were also impacted by that so we began to make 105 00:09:13,02 --> 00:09:16,79 it part of our standard practice that any student who witnessed that would all 106 00:09:16,83 --> 00:09:20,53 would have the opportunity to be at least part of it at least 107 00:09:20,54 --> 00:09:26,59 a brief discussion. About what they had experienced and what you know again the 108 00:09:26,60 --> 00:09:31,55 stance of the school that this was not OK yeah but that our opposition was to the 109 00:09:31,56 --> 00:09:37,89 behavior not to the individual who manifested that behavior did it did it seem to 110 00:09:37,90 --> 00:09:44,24 put some of the witness students on you know kind of that they would be ratting out 111 00:09:44,25 --> 00:09:48,77 a fellow student did they ever feel that they couldn't speak freely because of 112 00:09:48,78 --> 00:09:54,58 things like that that they didn't want to get anyone in trouble. I'm sure students 113 00:09:54,59 --> 00:10:00,20 had that experience we did our best to. Create 114 00:10:00,21 --> 00:10:06,79 a circumstance in which. We as a school we all want this to be 115 00:10:06,80 --> 00:10:10,56 a place that's safe around the one and so when someone makes 116 00:10:10,57 --> 00:10:17,51 a mistake like this anyone who hopes to put attention or not address 117 00:10:17,52 --> 00:10:24,03 the mistake and bring the community back together is helping the school we really 118 00:10:24,04 --> 00:10:28,99 try to value anyone who is willing to participate in saying hey something's not 119 00:10:29,00 --> 00:10:34,34 right here we need to do something right I understand it sounds like there was also 120 00:10:34,35 --> 00:10:39,80 implicit in all that sort of trust building that the students could trust the 121 00:10:39,81 --> 00:10:44,74 administrators and the authority figures the teachers the administrators who were 122 00:10:44,75 --> 00:10:48,89 involved in this that there was try to you know that they didn't have to keep 123 00:10:48,90 --> 00:10:54,53 silent that they could participate you know you know I think an awful lot of what 124 00:10:54,54 --> 00:11:01,26 happens in education is really all about relationships right. Yeah so 125 00:11:01,47 --> 00:11:06,89 getting. Moving along in relationship building well actually let me say one other 126 00:11:06,90 --> 00:11:11,59 thing though you're right that. Students started and parents started really 127 00:11:11,63 --> 00:11:14,85 relating incidents of racism Yeah one of the things that happened 128 00:11:14,86 --> 00:11:19,92 a couple months down the road is some white parents came to me and said we didn't 129 00:11:19,93 --> 00:11:26,83 have any racism here till you got here. And I think that so often the situation is 130 00:11:26,84 --> 00:11:33,43 obviously there was these incidents were had been going on all along. But 131 00:11:33,80 --> 00:11:38,17 students of color hadn't had the confidence that they would be addressed if they 132 00:11:38,18 --> 00:11:44,12 were reported Yeah. So it took. It took rocking the boat 133 00:11:44,48 --> 00:11:49,90 a bit to address things that were happening and we actually made very significant 134 00:11:49,91 --> 00:11:50,78 progress you know 135 00:11:50,79 --> 00:11:57,28 a few years later we would meet again and kind of assess how it was going Yeah and 136 00:11:58,13 --> 00:12:03,58 I remember we got to the point where we became very rare to have that kind of 137 00:12:03,59 --> 00:12:06,94 incident and we had an incident in which 138 00:12:06,95 --> 00:12:12,96 a student transferred from another school made some inappropriate comment and one 139 00:12:12,97 --> 00:12:19,44 of our fifth graders just turned to him and said we don't do that here yeah. Wow. 140 00:12:22,17 --> 00:12:29,08 Well I want to be sure that we. Have time to focus on the 141 00:12:29,09 --> 00:12:34,50 coming together activities that you've been doing why don't you tell us 142 00:12:34,56 --> 00:12:39,85 a little bit about what coming together in this and how it got formed in what 143 00:12:39,86 --> 00:12:42,05 you've been up to where it's so it's 144 00:12:42,06 --> 00:12:47,17 a project and everyone's invited to participate in the project you don't have to 145 00:12:47,18 --> 00:12:47,51 become 146 00:12:47,52 --> 00:12:54,48 a member in other words. And you know as I my experience in the schools 147 00:12:54,49 --> 00:12:59,03 and talking to people in town I kept hearing again and again from white people 148 00:12:59,37 --> 00:13:06,34 there's not much racism here if any and people of color would when they heard that 149 00:13:06,35 --> 00:13:10,69 I would just roll their eyes and go you know what you mean I experience it every 150 00:13:10,69 --> 00:13:17,57 week if not every day or more. So my sense I don't know whether we can 151 00:13:17,58 --> 00:13:22,08 end racism in Amherst in the short term but it did seem to me that we ought to be 152 00:13:22,10 --> 00:13:28,77 able to bridge that divide we ought to be able to give. White folks in town 153 00:13:28,78 --> 00:13:35,70 a better understanding of the lived experience of people of color. Because for all 154 00:13:35,71 --> 00:13:36,21 that this is 155 00:13:36,22 --> 00:13:42,83 a town that cares about racism and cares about equity we're still pretty divided 156 00:13:42,84 --> 00:13:48,02 from each other yeah and relaxed conversation about race doesn't happen easily 157 00:13:48,09 --> 00:13:54,72 right in Amherst. So the project is called coming together understanding 158 00:13:54,73 --> 00:14:01,53 racism working for justice and building connections. Which is you know 159 00:14:01,54 --> 00:14:07,76 sort of our sense of what what needs to happen what we hope will happen. And 160 00:14:08,70 --> 00:14:09,33 we think there's 161 00:14:09,34 --> 00:14:16,39 a lot that can be learned about racism we think there are. It's 162 00:14:16,40 --> 00:14:21,70 going to be possible to build more relationships among people in town including 163 00:14:21,71 --> 00:14:26,39 across racial differences and that as we get 164 00:14:26,40 --> 00:14:32,86 a more shared understanding of what the situation is in town. Then the 165 00:14:32,87 --> 00:14:39,35 potential for moving forward together will be greater Yeah so you've had these 166 00:14:39,36 --> 00:14:46,15 programs. Are you have the andoh here series for the know how well for the 167 00:14:46,16 --> 00:14:48,77 fall for this far yeah I mean you've had quite 168 00:14:48,78 --> 00:14:55,09 a few activities we showed we showed the central park five movie we showed 169 00:14:55,10 --> 00:15:00,02 a. Video by Tim Wise called White Like Me. 170 00:15:01,70 --> 00:15:03,07 Barbara Love gave 171 00:15:03,08 --> 00:15:10,01 a talk called. Love care and racism coming together in Amherst. And 172 00:15:10,02 --> 00:15:14,73 then Barbara also facilitated what we call the community conversation so we served 173 00:15:14,74 --> 00:15:19,26 a meal then we had people come together and spend some time in separate groups 174 00:15:19,30 --> 00:15:24,64 white folks meeting with each other and. People of color as Barbara's been calling 175 00:15:24,65 --> 00:15:31,12 them people the global majority. Meeting separately and coming together to to talk 176 00:15:31,13 --> 00:15:36,24 with each other. And then Debbie Irving who recently wrote 177 00:15:36,25 --> 00:15:42,43 a new book called Waking up white and finding myself in the story of race. Came to 178 00:15:42,44 --> 00:15:48,46 town and talked and and we've had from sixty five to one hundred ten people what 179 00:15:48,47 --> 00:15:53,86 every one of these events that I've been tremendously encouraged by the response we 180 00:15:53,87 --> 00:15:59,53 do have one more coming up before the new year the first Thursday in December we're 181 00:15:59,54 --> 00:16:05,58 going to show video called Latino's beyond real real spilled R L. 182 00:16:06,61 --> 00:16:12,70 And it's about images and stereotypes of Latinos in the entertainment industry 183 00:16:13,56 --> 00:16:20,51 particularly in the movies but her. Also how that affects. The 184 00:16:21,20 --> 00:16:26,00 popular views of what he knows and Latinos that brings me back of a quite 185 00:16:26,01 --> 00:16:31,96 a few years. The West Side Story issue that happened here in town right that that's 186 00:16:31,97 --> 00:16:38,01 an example of that but we intend to continue with speakers and panels and movies 187 00:16:38,15 --> 00:16:43,40 pretty much all through next year that's great and what what has been the feedback 188 00:16:43,41 --> 00:16:48,66 you've gotten good numbers participating and how have people been feeling about the 189 00:16:48,67 --> 00:16:54,45 quality of conversation and the depth of it. Well I know. 190 00:16:55,80 --> 00:17:00,83 After one of the after the white like Mae video somebody said oh we need to show 191 00:17:00,84 --> 00:17:04,54 this to the Chamber of Commerce and somebody and the high school student was there 192 00:17:04,55 --> 00:17:08,96 and said we need to show this to students at the high school. So there was 193 00:17:08,97 --> 00:17:15,30 a sense of. You know that there's there's more to do here right you know and that 194 00:17:15,31 --> 00:17:20,81 the this can go further. After the community conversation many people both people 195 00:17:20,82 --> 00:17:26,53 the global majority and white folks said we need to do more of this and again both 196 00:17:26,54 --> 00:17:33,02 separately and together yeah. Occasionally some of the people of the globe majority 197 00:17:33,03 --> 00:17:38,55 have found it painful to hear in the small but we often have 198 00:17:38,56 --> 00:17:44,62 a pared conversation somewhere in the evening. And some white people have 199 00:17:45,11 --> 00:17:50,75 indicated their skepticism about the presence of racism. Still But why wouldn't 200 00:17:51,43 --> 00:17:57,14 finish what you're saying that people of the global majority were worth it what was 201 00:17:57,15 --> 00:18:02,51 painful for them to sit with someone who had just shared the experience of 202 00:18:02,52 --> 00:18:03,14 a film or 203 00:18:03,15 --> 00:18:09,10 a talk with them OK and here that there was still some denial still some you know 204 00:18:09,11 --> 00:18:15,32 one of the things that so many of us who are white. Sort of get trained to do is to 205 00:18:15,45 --> 00:18:21,74 or tend to do is to try to find some other explanation Yeah you know in the been 206 00:18:21,75 --> 00:18:27,39 a couple of letters to the paper recently where some person of the global majority 207 00:18:27,40 --> 00:18:33,04 describes an incident right that they experience this racism very clearly. And 208 00:18:33,05 --> 00:18:38,28 white people were just very eager to find some other explanation I was sent Barbara 209 00:18:38,29 --> 00:18:44,39 Love tot and I think she actually had an explanation for that didn't she that. 210 00:18:45,70 --> 00:18:47,54 It's so they're coming from 211 00:18:47,55 --> 00:18:54,44 a very early age as white babies and children see these you know in just 212 00:18:54,45 --> 00:18:59,23 things happen and see that they're not fair when they're not handled in an 213 00:18:59,24 --> 00:19:06,10 equitable way they have to make some sense of it and so that's one of. The 214 00:19:06,11 --> 00:19:09,76 ways she explained it is if I understand it all right that I think that's an 215 00:19:09,77 --> 00:19:15,20 excellent description were certainly are there is some way you have to tell the 216 00:19:15,21 --> 00:19:21,08 story in your mind there must be something you know something different that's 217 00:19:21,09 --> 00:19:26,95 going on than what I'm witnessing or it would have this outcome that isn't just it 218 00:19:26,96 --> 00:19:32,73 isn't fair or you know. As much as we talk about white privilege and there's no 219 00:19:32,74 --> 00:19:36,68 question that those privileges exist there are all kinds of things benefits that 220 00:19:36,69 --> 00:19:41,81 come to white people just by virtue of being wired. Racism is also not good for 221 00:19:41,82 --> 00:19:48,48 white people and it's dehumanizing right and for the young white child who 222 00:19:48,49 --> 00:19:54,39 grows up believing things should be fair and then pretty soon sees that things are 223 00:19:54,40 --> 00:19:59,58 not fair and sees for the most part that their parents and the other white people 224 00:19:59,59 --> 00:20:04,17 around them and the people that they depend on and love are doing that much to 225 00:20:04,18 --> 00:20:10,36 change things so very painful and I think sometimes frightening experience and I 226 00:20:10,37 --> 00:20:15,05 think one of the reasons it's been so difficult to eradicate racism because of been 227 00:20:15,06 --> 00:20:20,49 so many good efforts over time you know in our country is that racism has deep 228 00:20:20,50 --> 00:20:26,05 emotional roots for everybody right the way it's affected people of color and it's 229 00:20:26,06 --> 00:20:32,11 the way it's affected white people and for those of us who are white racism is you 230 00:20:32,12 --> 00:20:36,54 know built on our fears and insecurities that have been intentionally manipulated 231 00:20:36,55 --> 00:20:40,54 to keep this visit thing in place all right so that's 232 00:20:40,55 --> 00:20:45,64 a really good segue to this next part of the conversation and I want us to have 233 00:20:46,74 --> 00:20:50,93 first of all I just want to say the disclaimer that you are rest for an inch owns 234 00:20:50,94 --> 00:20:57,36 you don't represent all white people or at all knowledgeable white you know you are 235 00:20:57,37 --> 00:21:02,48 just speaking from your own personal self and I'm very much still 236 00:21:02,49 --> 00:21:06,56 a learner here I'm not putting myself forward as an expert at all I've had 237 00:21:06,57 --> 00:21:09,50 a lot of good experiences and help but I still have 238 00:21:09,51 --> 00:21:15,69 a lot to learn and sometimes it's it's very difficult to have these conversations 239 00:21:15,70 --> 00:21:22,38 when it really isn't the job of the people of the global majority to 240 00:21:22,39 --> 00:21:29,33 educate us so here you are someone who has all of this in you and so I WANNA I 241 00:21:29,34 --> 00:21:34,97 want to ask you some questions that are more Brive and hope that we can get to some 242 00:21:34,98 --> 00:21:41,97 understanding about what these things mean so. White Privilege let's start 243 00:21:41,98 --> 00:21:46,04 with that you know you've already mentioned it a little bit that for 244 00:21:46,05 --> 00:21:52,02 a person who is white and doesn't get it doesn't have any 245 00:21:52,03 --> 00:21:58,90 experience of even witnessing. Incidence of racism or 246 00:21:58,94 --> 00:22:04,67 have any awareness of that how do you how can you explain what is white privilege. 247 00:22:06,19 --> 00:22:10,30 Well first of all say it's it's not something I think anybody understands quickly 248 00:22:10,31 --> 00:22:17,07 and easily it's an ongoing experience but those of us 249 00:22:17,08 --> 00:22:20,17 who are boy it. Live in 250 00:22:20,18 --> 00:22:25,36 a society where people with skin color like ours dominate the society at the bulk 251 00:22:25,37 --> 00:22:30,42 of the wealth the bulk of the political power bulk of the status the bulk of access 252 00:22:30,42 --> 00:22:37,25 . Many many white people have told me they grew up feeling 253 00:22:37,26 --> 00:22:43,41 White was normal. And being black or Latino or Asian was different 254 00:22:44,36 --> 00:22:50,96 and that sense that you are people are the norm. And that you are not 255 00:22:50,97 --> 00:22:57,46 going to experience mistreatment. I mean your relatives aren't going to be shot 256 00:22:57,47 --> 00:23:01,32 down in the streets or you're not going to be denied access to 257 00:23:01,33 --> 00:23:08,12 a job. Means that white people walk through the world not having to think 258 00:23:08,13 --> 00:23:13,74 about or pay attention to race or racism you know there's this they replicate these 259 00:23:13,75 --> 00:23:15,31 studies all the time you send out 260 00:23:15,32 --> 00:23:21,82 a bunch of resumes with that are virtually identical but have. Black sounding or 261 00:23:21,83 --> 00:23:27,64 Latino sounding or white European sounding names and this study it's replicated 262 00:23:27,65 --> 00:23:33,20 every time white the resume with the white name gets invited for an interview in 263 00:23:33,21 --> 00:23:39,17 a far higher rate than the others even when they raise resumes are identical. So 264 00:23:39,18 --> 00:23:44,05 these kinds of things happen over and over again and those of us are white for the 265 00:23:44,06 --> 00:23:48,78 most part we don't even know they're happening to us. So that's 266 00:23:48,79 --> 00:23:53,23 a big part of the privilege it's not something awful that we're doing or something 267 00:23:53,24 --> 00:24:00,02 that is based on hate or prejudice of our own and active it's just 268 00:24:00,03 --> 00:24:04,93 ways we benefit from the society I mean I mean we can trace some of this I mean you 269 00:24:04,94 --> 00:24:09,26 know white average white family wealth for instance in this country is twenty times 270 00:24:09,67 --> 00:24:14,42 the average wealth of Black and Brown families Yeah and this can be traced to very 271 00:24:14,43 --> 00:24:20,15 clearly to affirmative actions for white people that our government engaged in for 272 00:24:20,16 --> 00:24:23,91 many many years. Well F.H.A. 273 00:24:23,92 --> 00:24:29,11 Loans are one of the easy ones from nineteen thirty four to one nine hundred sixty 274 00:24:29,12 --> 00:24:31,65 two the F.H.A. 275 00:24:31,69 --> 00:24:37,94 The Federal Housing Authority. Backed one point two 276 00:24:37,95 --> 00:24:44,95 billion dollars. In home mortgages I think I have that number right and it 277 00:24:44,96 --> 00:24:51,08 was less than two percent of them went to people the globe Jordi Yeah you buy 278 00:24:51,09 --> 00:24:57,54 a home it inflates in value Yeah. You end up with wealth that people who didn't 279 00:24:57,55 --> 00:24:58,00 know have 280 00:24:58,01 --> 00:25:05,17 a home don't end up with. And then. You know we all we have this Miss of meritocracy 281 00:25:05,18 --> 00:25:09,72 in this country oh you must have been better because you you have this wealth no 282 00:25:10,01 --> 00:25:16,91 you benefited from what really is affirmative action for white people yeah and 283 00:25:16,95 --> 00:25:23,60 this is not to. Say anybody is all for horrible or blame anybody but to 284 00:25:23,64 --> 00:25:27,88 understand that these things have happened over time 285 00:25:27,89 --> 00:25:33,16 a cumulative advantage to white people and disadvantage to people of the global 286 00:25:33,17 --> 00:25:40,03 majority Yeah and it's part of the reality that we we live in today and we get to 287 00:25:40,04 --> 00:25:44,44 think about what makes sense and how I would dress it. In our nation and our 288 00:25:44,45 --> 00:25:51,03 community and our schools yeah. I'm I'm just thinking that we don't have 289 00:25:51,04 --> 00:25:57,84 a lot of time left in this first of the show. And I 290 00:25:57,88 --> 00:26:04,46 don't in any way want to cut this part short so. Maybe we'll 291 00:26:04,47 --> 00:26:11,15 just stop here and. We'll pick up this same topic of. 292 00:26:12,19 --> 00:26:14,74 White privilege and sort of unpacking 293 00:26:14,75 --> 00:26:21,47 a little bit more in our part to so thank you for joining us thank you 294 00:26:21,48 --> 00:26:26,75 Russ and we'll see you all in part two of going deeper thank you you thank.