1 00:00:17,13 --> 00:00:22,96 To the argot No not August sorry September third meeting of the urban village 2 00:00:22,97 --> 00:00:27,44 development commission. We're going to go ahead and start the meeting with our 3 00:00:27,45 --> 00:00:30,33 meeting minutes from August twentieth so I hope everyone had a chance to take 4 00:00:30,34 --> 00:00:34,81 a look at them I know I did I don't have any edits but does anybody have anything 5 00:00:34,82 --> 00:00:41,73 they want to. Bring up. You know OK so let's go 6 00:00:41,74 --> 00:00:43,01 ahead and get 7 00:00:43,02 --> 00:00:49,21 a motion on those. Moves that we have to be August twentieth minute 8 00:00:49,89 --> 00:00:56,82 second day second by Carly all in favor. Of all oppose OK I thought you 9 00:00:56,83 --> 00:01:03,80 know it's like All right let's move on. We're going to go right to the development 10 00:01:03,81 --> 00:01:07,03 agreement and we're going to try and get through the rest of the appendices today. 11 00:01:08,17 --> 00:01:12,69 And then we'll have lots of time hopefully I will make time to go back and I know 12 00:01:12,71 --> 00:01:19,47 that Lucy and Tina have made. Absent responses to some of things we've talked about 13 00:01:19,48 --> 00:01:23,46 some edits and suggestions and that sort of thing so let's go ahead and move 14 00:01:23,47 --> 00:01:29,46 through where we are right now what So we're ready for appendix eight landscaping 15 00:01:29,47 --> 00:01:31,09 that's where we stopped last time 16 00:01:31,10 --> 00:01:37,95 a ship. As Jeff said we're hoping to get through the. Last of 17 00:01:38,07 --> 00:01:44,48 the four other chapters that you perceived. We are part of the reason we're hoping 18 00:01:44,49 --> 00:01:49,37 to get through that tonight is we would like to provide to you in the council with 19 00:01:49,42 --> 00:01:54,93 a revised draft for the next meeting as Jeff indicated we've been working on 20 00:01:55,29 --> 00:02:01,82 incorporating. Your comments we've been meeting with some of the council committee 21 00:02:02,56 --> 00:02:08,25 and we've gotten some comments from them we've also been fixing all the references 22 00:02:08,41 --> 00:02:10,46 to these so it should read 23 00:02:10,47 --> 00:02:15,93 a little more smoothly. And just be aware I don't think this is surprised but just 24 00:02:16,03 --> 00:02:20,12 to put it on your radar that all the things that are shown legislature 25 00:02:20,43 --> 00:02:25,82 legislatively as strikes and underlines in this draft have been accepted and so 26 00:02:25,83 --> 00:02:26,69 you'll see 27 00:02:27,02 --> 00:02:32,35 a draft with new strikes and underlines showing what's been changed for this truck 28 00:02:32,69 --> 00:02:39,29 for the tractor or see if you see any type of feel pretty to send us an e-mail. So 29 00:02:39,30 --> 00:02:42,87 we don't go through that we're trying to close as well there will be 30 00:02:42,88 --> 00:02:47,86 a time for public comment tonight if anyone would like to comment at the very end 31 00:02:47,87 --> 00:02:48,97 of this table there's 32 00:02:48,98 --> 00:02:54,01 a public sign up sheet so feel free to sign up for that at the end of the meeting 33 00:02:54,83 --> 00:03:00,10 and as we go through each of the chapters we'll give sweetish an opportunity if 34 00:03:00,11 --> 00:03:06,16 they want to add something so. If you have something to add you can. 35 00:03:10,07 --> 00:03:16,51 Click here. To assist them sorry for assistance. 36 00:03:19,33 --> 00:03:22,88 Oh I didn't know that we're going to be getting that I'm happy to do it again so 37 00:03:22,89 --> 00:03:23,97 this we're reviewing 38 00:03:23,98 --> 00:03:28,95 a development agreement. In the development agreement is to make 39 00:03:28,96 --> 00:03:32,82 a recommendation to the council who are the ultimate decision. 40 00:03:36,45 --> 00:03:42,23 Thank you so. Appendix ages landscape. 41 00:03:43,59 --> 00:03:49,55 Again we started with Lakeside it was the newest chapter and we felt that we had 42 00:03:49,56 --> 00:03:56,36 incorporated. Good additions so we reuse that one not too 43 00:03:56,37 --> 00:04:02,92 many changes. To that chapter mostly we were eliminated the steep 44 00:04:03,24 --> 00:04:08,16 you know there's that slope that was between the developed areas in the industrial 45 00:04:08,17 --> 00:04:09,37 area and there was quite 46 00:04:09,38 --> 00:04:14,82 a bit of conceptual planting plans and details and things associated with that and 47 00:04:14,83 --> 00:04:20,34 so that those portions of the Lakeside landscape chapter world eliminated but 48 00:04:20,38 --> 00:04:26,67 otherwise it's pretty much the same chapter thoughts 49 00:04:27,03 --> 00:04:28,20 questions comments 50 00:04:34,14 --> 00:04:39,38 go ahead and. Become the Sun I had 51 00:04:39,39 --> 00:04:46,17 a question on. This page three to five point one where it says the street trees 52 00:04:46,18 --> 00:04:51,93 shall be determined by the master developer and the what I'm questioning as the 53 00:04:51,94 --> 00:04:54,44 phrase determined by when really there's 54 00:04:54,45 --> 00:04:59,55 a lot in the agreement that determines street trees and so I thought I'd ask what 55 00:05:00,26 --> 00:05:04,61 is this really trying to say what do they determine. Well. 56 00:05:07,22 --> 00:05:11,03 I actually recommended in the next truck that you're going to get that it be 57 00:05:11,04 --> 00:05:16,01 something different because the existing streets are already part of this quote 58 00:05:16,02 --> 00:05:21,62 Highlands master street tree plan and that those streets should start with that but 59 00:05:21,63 --> 00:05:28,41 that for other streets especially private land streets that if for instance 60 00:05:28,42 --> 00:05:35,21 the donut hole is broken up by. By circulation elements 61 00:05:35,99 --> 00:05:41,73 in those elements include trees the master developer sweetish could propose. 62 00:05:42,91 --> 00:05:48,47 A different pallet inside that block. If it's if those are going to be publicly 63 00:05:48,51 --> 00:05:52,02 owned streets the city would. Want to take 64 00:05:52,03 --> 00:05:58,91 a look at those and make sure that those are. Plant you know whether that plant 65 00:05:58,92 --> 00:06:05,17 material is something that we consider appropriate near. Public lands public paid 66 00:06:05,89 --> 00:06:12,77 so just help me understand even if it's private. Doesn't it still fall 67 00:06:12,79 --> 00:06:19,12 under the guidelines and standards that are put forth in this document and I you 68 00:06:19,12 --> 00:06:23,96 know as we hadn't as acquirements to well. 69 00:06:25,93 --> 00:06:32,41 Yes And so in there let's say they decided to propose 70 00:06:32,42 --> 00:06:38,89 conifers as their street trees which would be probably 71 00:06:39,18 --> 00:06:44,80 not consistent with the neighborhood type they picked so when they propose that as 72 00:06:44,86 --> 00:06:49,30 part of their master St tree plan that would be the comment they would get back so 73 00:06:49,45 --> 00:06:52,30 you're right it's it's not completely out of thin air. 74 00:06:57,35 --> 00:07:03,50 I can say that you know you're working on the language of this paragraph A And I 75 00:07:03,51 --> 00:07:07,61 think it could just be word smith to be more consistent not say determined to 76 00:07:07,62 --> 00:07:12,18 because the rest of the sentence says that it has to still be approved so perhaps 77 00:07:12,19 --> 00:07:13,04 even what you just said 78 00:07:13,05 --> 00:07:19,90 a moment ago proposed to buy or something like that and that would help. Better 79 00:07:19,91 --> 00:07:24,75 define the role. Of the master developer OK so I was around the question there and 80 00:07:24,76 --> 00:07:31,00 then I had one more question. Someone three just jumping ahead I'm sorry to say 81 00:07:31,01 --> 00:07:37,00 which one ten point three on page nine. Fertilizer besides pesticide use and I wish 82 00:07:37,01 --> 00:07:41,43 I'd had the time to look back to the US Chua and standards as far as. 83 00:07:43,22 --> 00:07:50,12 Organic. You know low impact stuff. And is 84 00:07:50,13 --> 00:07:54,02 this the same this doesn't look like this has that kind of spirit to it so I 85 00:07:54,03 --> 00:07:57,81 wondered what how this just different from the current It's 86 00:07:57,82 --> 00:08:02,31 a quiet and standards as well as fertilizer herbicide and pesticide and I'm sorry 87 00:08:02,32 --> 00:08:06,51 let me were I do remember though that in the development agreement that it refers 88 00:08:06,52 --> 00:08:13,14 to the current code in the city code doesn't it know that current is one 89 00:08:13,15 --> 00:08:19,67 Highlands development agreement it's in the ground water standards and it requires 90 00:08:19,68 --> 00:08:26,13 that they. Do things like inhibit their entry into the waterways when 91 00:08:26,49 --> 00:08:33,22 storm drains that last sentence but all the beginning stuff was not specified in 92 00:08:33,23 --> 00:08:37,37 the development agreement it was. In response to 93 00:08:37,38 --> 00:08:43,62 a performance standard that was included and at the time we spent. A fair amount of 94 00:08:43,63 --> 00:08:50,25 time working with. Specialists trying to figure out you know how to get better 95 00:08:50,26 --> 00:08:53,92 direction and so this is consistent with the. 96 00:08:57,56 --> 00:09:03,29 With what's in there mostly it's in your homeowners guide and then also in the 97 00:09:03,30 --> 00:09:10,12 landscape management plans that are required so I think the other things that 98 00:09:10,91 --> 00:09:16,98 sometimes come up are it's not that they're always required to be organic but they 99 00:09:16,99 --> 00:09:22,91 are often required to be slow release so that you're you know getting it over time 100 00:09:22,95 --> 00:09:28,31 and that language isn't in here and we could definitely add that. Thank you for 101 00:09:28,32 --> 00:09:30,30 helping me with this because I think there would be 102 00:09:30,31 --> 00:09:35,21 a lot of research to try to get that if and I think that this was more permissive 103 00:09:35,22 --> 00:09:40,88 for liberal than I would have expected in Esquire Thank you. Thank you nine and 104 00:09:41,84 --> 00:09:48,32 some tough. Concern about that that section 105 00:09:49,32 --> 00:09:55,92 plan selection I don't see where Bird arrest is 106 00:09:56,52 --> 00:10:03,16 now one could argue that the native plants that planned that very well. What's 107 00:10:03,17 --> 00:10:08,53 a language to the greater region. I think they should be 108 00:10:08,54 --> 00:10:14,67 a list if it's not somewhere as at that missing it plants that. Under any 109 00:10:14,68 --> 00:10:20,83 circumstances such as. Butterfly trees you know the type of. 110 00:10:22,20 --> 00:10:28,50 May not be completely I mean some of those I invasive and some of those. Tendencies 111 00:10:28,69 --> 00:10:33,22 may not be listed as such. So we don't we don't have 112 00:10:33,23 --> 00:10:39,69 a list I think we generally rely on the King. Partly because it evolves over time 113 00:10:39,70 --> 00:10:44,34 so we put it in the development agreement. You know for instance butterfly bush. 114 00:10:50,62 --> 00:10:54,97 So. Much. Isn't. 115 00:10:57,50 --> 00:11:04,27 So but what I'll do is look and see what kind of language if we can reference 116 00:11:04,31 --> 00:11:11,15 that. Would be because I'm familiar with that list and it's pretty. All 117 00:11:11,16 --> 00:11:18,15 right. Thank you anybody else on the landscape. And 118 00:11:18,16 --> 00:11:23,62 exist. Every development agreement. 119 00:11:27,85 --> 00:11:33,89 The tree. The landscape. 120 00:11:37,73 --> 00:11:41,89 OK. So before we start Seinfeld just 121 00:11:41,96 --> 00:11:45,63 a few more people of arriving just won't let you know that we will be taking public 122 00:11:45,64 --> 00:11:49,24 comment at the end of this meeting so there is 123 00:11:49,25 --> 00:11:53,59 a sign up sheet at the end of the table and feel free to sign up if you want to 124 00:11:53,60 --> 00:11:58,38 make. You. So sign standards. 125 00:12:00,35 --> 00:12:05,40 This week have. You mean some of you who have been on the machine for 126 00:12:05,41 --> 00:12:06,67 a while will remember we spent 127 00:12:06,68 --> 00:12:12,89 a lot of time with rallies working on the sign code. What 128 00:12:13,63 --> 00:12:16,39 the original is called Highland sign code was 129 00:12:16,40 --> 00:12:21,52 a big push for the city in terms of updating the sign code and when we got to the 130 00:12:21,53 --> 00:12:25,43 rallies development agreement we recognize that we had learned certain things over 131 00:12:25,44 --> 00:12:31,56 the years and also the rallies involvement with commercial properties really 132 00:12:31,57 --> 00:12:32,34 provided us with 133 00:12:32,35 --> 00:12:37,30 a lot of feedback on what had worked and not been working for businesses so we 134 00:12:37,62 --> 00:12:43,55 significantly updated the sign code. Scuse me and. 135 00:12:44,58 --> 00:12:50,41 Then use that for Lakeside and Highlands has adopted it. 136 00:12:51,84 --> 00:12:58,43 It is pretty much what was adopted for the central planning two and the goal is 137 00:12:58,44 --> 00:13:03,46 spend to try and create for the urban villages in the central supply area 138 00:13:03,93 --> 00:13:10,73 a kind of unified sun. D B A 139 00:13:10,74 --> 00:13:15,30 couple of amps that have happened that will get incorporated in I realized they 140 00:13:15,34 --> 00:13:20,71 were in here and the infrastructure the infrastructure committee of the Council has 141 00:13:20,72 --> 00:13:24,97 asked that we were remove the automobile sign section. 142 00:13:28,58 --> 00:13:32,65 Gas station and that on the bill service station Thank you. 143 00:13:36,06 --> 00:13:41,17 Because that isn't allowed use of course just because it was in the code doesn't 144 00:13:41,18 --> 00:13:41,93 mean would make it 145 00:13:41,94 --> 00:13:48,35 a lot of use but I think they just thought clear to remove that section just in the 146 00:13:48,36 --> 00:13:55,34 same way that. We clarified the. Signs for 147 00:13:55,35 --> 00:13:59,64 really tall buildings which I'm blanking on the name of that was removed from 148 00:13:59,65 --> 00:14:06,46 Lakeside in this one so. Those are the only sort of updates I have from what you 149 00:14:06,47 --> 00:14:11,24 see before you and I'm interested if you have an additional comment box. 150 00:14:15,61 --> 00:14:19,66 I'm sorry it's only raise your hand there Stephanie go ahead I know there's 151 00:14:19,67 --> 00:14:24,38 different acquirements for signage on hospitals how far down does that extend to 152 00:14:24,39 --> 00:14:29,00 other types of medical buildings whether they be urgent care or is it only strictly 153 00:14:29,01 --> 00:14:34,03 hospitals that have different scene for their way and let different standards are 154 00:14:34,04 --> 00:14:38,69 there other medical facilities that have the same sort of difference that may come 155 00:14:38,70 --> 00:14:43,84 into play for this so the Swedish is only requesting. 156 00:14:46,39 --> 00:14:50,22 I think medical office I don't think they're asking for an expansion of the 157 00:14:50,23 --> 00:14:56,65 hospital and so I think we've addressed over time but if for some reason something 158 00:14:56,66 --> 00:15:03,52 came up. What we have done is and maybe that would be worth noting 159 00:15:03,53 --> 00:15:09,40 and here at the very end. Is that as essential syllabi 160 00:15:10,23 --> 00:15:13,90 we were and we. Did a whole we did 161 00:15:13,91 --> 00:15:20,88 a modification for them based on that. And so. We are not 162 00:15:21,47 --> 00:15:28,23 interested in making many of those changes available broadly but we work we work 163 00:15:28,24 --> 00:15:35,02 with them like them what they thought were the most critical kind of. Signs 164 00:15:35,73 --> 00:15:42,63 and sort of met method messaging people and we're actually we're still talking 165 00:15:42,64 --> 00:15:47,16 about some additional ones as different facilities come on longer they're still the 166 00:15:47,17 --> 00:15:53,93 only things yeah. Thank you let's just. 167 00:15:55,41 --> 00:15:56,37 Say on pay 168 00:15:56,41 --> 00:16:02,55 a. Lot of paid sex to Doc thirty seven I was curious is it 169 00:16:02,56 --> 00:16:07,22 a specific Why is it Prancercise signs and there was no retail or no restaurant 170 00:16:07,74 --> 00:16:12,38 sign types and franchise means one specific thing to me but it means something else 171 00:16:12,39 --> 00:16:17,87 here OK The times I just asked so if you see that little example there. The 172 00:16:17,88 --> 00:16:23,39 Michaels bicycle's is not the franchise sign part the mountain COLA is the 173 00:16:23,40 --> 00:16:30,37 franchise part so if for instance another well known COLA you 174 00:16:30,38 --> 00:16:35,29 know how they sometimes do signs for businesses and then they have their logo is 175 00:16:35,30 --> 00:16:40,09 part of the sign that's what we mean by franchise time so it's 176 00:16:40,10 --> 00:16:47,06 a very particular kind of sign it doesn't come up very often. Thank you. 177 00:16:48,72 --> 00:16:55,48 So. I. Spent some time really looking at 178 00:16:56,10 --> 00:17:00,94 the Highlands from I ninety both during the day and at night and I was trying to 179 00:17:00,95 --> 00:17:06,07 picture you know where these buildings might be if they were at maximum height and 180 00:17:06,08 --> 00:17:11,05 so forth I couldn't tell exactly but I'm just wondering if there's some way we can 181 00:17:11,06 --> 00:17:14,44 get some sort of a. Graphic rendering maybe even 182 00:17:14,45 --> 00:17:19,08 a photo from I know I want to stop on and I need take a picture up but just to get 183 00:17:19,09 --> 00:17:20,35 a sense for 184 00:17:21,01 --> 00:17:26,45 a sense of you know if they do in fact go to maximum height what that visibility 185 00:17:26,46 --> 00:17:33,39 might look like from off site particularly. I suppose we could look at it from the 186 00:17:33,40 --> 00:17:39,01 east as well. So do you. 187 00:17:40,24 --> 00:17:45,32 I have a feeling this. Do you want to give me a little Can you give me 188 00:17:45,33 --> 00:17:49,73 a little more sense of what your concern is or what you're thinking about yeah I 189 00:17:49,74 --> 00:17:55,53 mean my my biggest secret so let me just state first off that I I am of the mind 190 00:17:55,54 --> 00:17:59,38 that what we're doing in the Highlands what we've done in the Highlands so far 191 00:17:59,67 --> 00:17:59,98 isn't 192 00:18:00,02 --> 00:18:03,44 a blight on the hill I actually think it looks quite nice I was looking at the other 193 00:18:03,45 --> 00:18:07,15 night on the road and it sticks the lights are pretty it's just not 194 00:18:07,16 --> 00:18:11,62 a dark background what I'm I guess what I'm most concerned about would be something 195 00:18:11,66 --> 00:18:15,55 sticking out really I mean there was one thing that I saw as I was driving there 196 00:18:15,56 --> 00:18:16,15 was a quite 197 00:18:16,16 --> 00:18:20,24 a bright light and I couldn't figure out what it was that I was seeing and I still 198 00:18:20,25 --> 00:18:24,06 don't know what it was that I saw but it didn't seem to fit the rest of that sort 199 00:18:24,07 --> 00:18:27,66 of if I could use the term character the rest of the lights on the on the Hill and 200 00:18:27,67 --> 00:18:31,27 that's to the stuff that really sticks out and doesn't seem to fit is the stuff 201 00:18:31,28 --> 00:18:37,98 that would concern me and and if we have you know. An eighty foot building 202 00:18:38,49 --> 00:18:39,10 and 203 00:18:39,41 --> 00:18:44,07 a very bright sign up there what would that look like from off site. That's probably 204 00:18:44,08 --> 00:18:49,83 my biggest concern So two things I think one is that. 205 00:18:52,39 --> 00:18:59,17 I think there's something in here that limit size to sixty five feet. And I 206 00:18:59,18 --> 00:19:04,43 forgot to look that up but I remember when I was reading back through this that 207 00:19:04,44 --> 00:19:11,35 that's in here. Is basically for me but I don't know. If it 208 00:19:11,36 --> 00:19:14,49 was here. But if it was 209 00:19:14,50 --> 00:19:51,14 a rally probably be here to write. That 210 00:19:51,15 --> 00:19:52,87 doesn't that doesn't limited. 211 00:20:05,05 --> 00:20:11,03 So I will find that OK The other thing I think you have Jeff is I think that 212 00:20:11,89 --> 00:20:15,50 correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming that you're thinking about this at night 213 00:20:16,26 --> 00:20:20,67 when lights are on again and so I'm thinking that maybe we should look at the 214 00:20:20,68 --> 00:20:27,27 lighting section for signs and that maybe there is something that needs to be added 215 00:20:28,20 --> 00:20:35,03 in there. That would provide better guidance. You know because 216 00:20:35,04 --> 00:20:38,07 sometimes it's hard to anticipate these ahead of time. 217 00:20:42,81 --> 00:20:46,56 And I've seen them like they are talking about his not the ballpark there's like 218 00:20:46,60 --> 00:20:51,54 one bright light now I'll see if I can I don't yeah I have kept I just saw I mean 219 00:20:51,58 --> 00:20:55,25 you know I just I have not had any stories straight it wasn't in the way that they 220 00:20:55,26 --> 00:21:01,32 are that but I think it's you know. I don't think it was related to construction so 221 00:21:01,33 --> 00:21:07,92 I don't you know I actually don't know what it was you know. OK 222 00:21:08,51 --> 00:21:15,19 All right well so let's look at the lighting section and I'll also next time I 223 00:21:15,20 --> 00:21:19,52 don't figure out where I'm at peace and I'm thinking of that I have 224 00:21:19,53 --> 00:21:25,18 a quick question so I don't know if this comes on as this or not to save the 225 00:21:25,19 --> 00:21:26,97 spotlight you know say you have 226 00:21:26,98 --> 00:21:31,09 a premiere or something is going on and I've already seen where spotlights 227 00:21:31,10 --> 00:21:36,46 reflating around the skyline what's what's working with I go anywhere in here and 228 00:21:36,47 --> 00:21:43,25 all that sounds like temporary you know kind of crane so they're prohibited except 229 00:21:43,30 --> 00:21:47,98 in association with like a grand opening game and you would have to get 230 00:21:47,99 --> 00:21:54,92 a special permit identifying all the different kinds of signs and the grand 231 00:21:54,96 --> 00:21:58,81 opening of that and how their bodies for a grand opening years or 232 00:21:58,82 --> 00:22:03,62 a time in it because I notice like sometimes people use the word new for quite 233 00:22:03,63 --> 00:22:07,13 a long time. Going. 234 00:22:10,87 --> 00:22:15,34 So the only part of the permit process obviously right here right it's limited to 235 00:22:15,35 --> 00:22:18,17 thirty days and no more than one in 236 00:22:18,18 --> 00:22:22,57 a twelve month period now that does not mean that we would allow you necessarily or 237 00:22:22,64 --> 00:22:26,52 have those lights up for thirty days and we just think that would be the longest 238 00:22:26,53 --> 00:22:32,10 period that we could all right thank you is that embracing or is that the time from 239 00:22:32,11 --> 00:22:35,81 the time that somebody actually opens to the time that So it's 240 00:22:35,82 --> 00:22:40,92 a time frame in which they can use it as opposed to duration of time. It's not like 241 00:22:40,93 --> 00:22:44,19 you could take thirty days was present numbers here now I guess I'm asking is if 242 00:22:44,20 --> 00:22:51,11 a store opens on April first do they have until April thirtieth to to use that as 243 00:22:51,12 --> 00:22:54,36 opposed to the duration of thirty days you know in the middle of May through the 244 00:22:54,37 --> 00:22:59,95 middle of June. You know for instance Regency is not going to have the grand 245 00:22:59,96 --> 00:23:06,44 opening an hour later in the fall I think and so you know within reason it does it 246 00:23:06,45 --> 00:23:10,43 doesn't if you open your doors on the first step that somebody's days referring to 247 00:23:10,44 --> 00:23:16,20 right now you know it could I mean you would have to have something that qualified 248 00:23:16,24 --> 00:23:20,06 right and up and the other thing is if in section five sixteen there's 249 00:23:20,07 --> 00:23:24,85 a special or one time event I don't know if we would allow spotlights in 250 00:23:24,86 --> 00:23:31,85 association with that. But those kinds of events also have the same 251 00:23:31,86 --> 00:23:38,12 kind of special review and sometimes more flexibility and I guess I would say as an 252 00:23:38,13 --> 00:23:42,54 event producer I wouldn't want to see those that limit it because those can be very 253 00:23:42,55 --> 00:23:46,33 valuable tools for something like that as long as it's permitted and you know and 254 00:23:46,34 --> 00:23:50,84 understand what those limitations are but I'd hate to see that not be allowed right 255 00:23:50,85 --> 00:23:51,28 I don't need 256 00:23:51,29 --> 00:24:00,40 a little salt right. OK OK Thank you. Signs 257 00:24:00,68 --> 00:24:06,55 thank you for Michael stem Eric Shanteau No Are we going to go on science anything 258 00:24:06,56 --> 00:24:11,17 else and I forgot to ask what landscaping or resigns any comments. 259 00:24:15,48 --> 00:24:18,15 The next section and is lighting. 260 00:24:22,32 --> 00:24:29,17 Again we started with the lakeside. Since it was our new US and also 261 00:24:29,18 --> 00:24:36,08 we had worked with our lighting consultant to consider things 262 00:24:36,09 --> 00:24:43,08 like. What I what what changes we needed to make to the 263 00:24:43,09 --> 00:24:46,87 lighting chapter that we developed with Rally because it was on 264 00:24:46,88 --> 00:24:53,82 a hill and so that seemed appropriate in this circumstance as well and we I think 265 00:24:53,86 --> 00:25:00,10 as Stephanie probably noticed it's been separated from the guidelines in put into 266 00:25:00,11 --> 00:25:05,68 its own chapter and part of that is because a portion of it is standards and 267 00:25:05,69 --> 00:25:09,88 a portion of it is guidelines and we thought it was confusing to have standards and 268 00:25:09,89 --> 00:25:12,85 guidelines chapter so we've made it 269 00:25:12,86 --> 00:25:20,49 a separate chapter that all in agreement. And 270 00:25:20,71 --> 00:25:21,45 really there weren't 271 00:25:21,46 --> 00:25:26,58 a lot of changes we eliminated sections on critical areas and you know updated the 272 00:25:26,59 --> 00:25:32,46 street types but that was pretty much can you remind me from looking at page page 273 00:25:32,47 --> 00:25:39,46 to. Neighborhood just struck in areas or and then can you remind me what is 274 00:25:39,47 --> 00:25:46,32 considered an area in this case. Well an area 275 00:25:46,33 --> 00:25:48,18 it's is not capitalized it's not 276 00:25:48,19 --> 00:25:55,07 a defined term. I think the reason that we struck 277 00:25:55,08 --> 00:25:59,48 neighborhood is because this is there's just one neighborhood it's not like 278 00:25:59,49 --> 00:26:06,13 lakeside or rally that had multiple districts or neighborhoods. So you know that 279 00:26:06,14 --> 00:26:09,24 was just. We weren't trying to do 280 00:26:09,29 --> 00:26:16,04 a defined term we were trying to describe an approach that. The 281 00:26:16,05 --> 00:26:17,60 master developer might choose. 282 00:26:26,37 --> 00:26:29,86 I guess I'm not sure how I feel about that because it doesn't really tell me 283 00:26:29,87 --> 00:26:32,82 anything other than I Mean Streets tells me something neighborhoods tell me 284 00:26:32,83 --> 00:26:36,80 something but areas that isn't defined doesn't really tell me anything so I don't 285 00:26:36,81 --> 00:26:38,51 know if that's a building 286 00:26:38,52 --> 00:26:45,08 a block the whole thing or what but. So I don't know maybe some thought 287 00:26:45,67 --> 00:26:49,09 around that I don't have I don't have a I don't have 288 00:26:49,10 --> 00:26:52,63 a remedy you just him but I'm just curious Thank you. 289 00:26:57,98 --> 00:27:00,08 Well I don't know I mean who's 290 00:27:00,09 --> 00:27:05,58 a former employee you know well I think areas yeah I think areas as 291 00:27:05,59 --> 00:27:09,90 a term is fine but I don't know that I don't know that it refers to anything else 292 00:27:09,91 --> 00:27:13,86 that we're doing here right so what's considered an area when they're developing 293 00:27:13,86 --> 00:27:20,57 this project because over time I mean I'm assuming that these things will probably 294 00:27:20,58 --> 00:27:27,51 not be built all at once would it be better if you like sectors or 295 00:27:27,52 --> 00:27:33,14 something I mean you could strike the word areas but I don't think we're incurred 296 00:27:33,15 --> 00:27:37,21 Jane I don't think we're trying to encourage that each street have 297 00:27:37,22 --> 00:27:42,73 a different land rose for instance I mean I wonder if per project application I 298 00:27:42,74 --> 00:27:46,33 don't know something where if something's being defined whatever that thing is 299 00:27:46,34 --> 00:27:48,51 being defined that we use that same terminology. 300 00:27:53,46 --> 00:27:58,34 But then again I see the reason for having it separated say if they wanted 301 00:27:58,35 --> 00:28:00,88 a continuity from one existing area to 302 00:28:00,89 --> 00:28:05,01 a new area it may not be appropriate for the new area that is already existing in 303 00:28:05,02 --> 00:28:09,96 the States and the existing area so if you called like the whole if you have areas 304 00:28:09,97 --> 00:28:13,26 then you can kind of do what you want without worrying that there's 305 00:28:13,27 --> 00:28:17,23 a sense of continuity over the whole project because I'm assuming they're not going 306 00:28:17,24 --> 00:28:23,28 to replace the lighting in the existing uses and the new uses may not have 307 00:28:23,32 --> 00:28:27,70 a lighting required or permitted that's consistent with what's already there 308 00:28:27,71 --> 00:28:33,66 necessarily. Right but an area could be a parking lot yeah as a part of 309 00:28:33,67 --> 00:28:37,36 a larger project that's all I'm saying is I actually don't really care what the 310 00:28:37,37 --> 00:28:41,88 term is as long as it relates to something else that we're referring to I guess you 311 00:28:41,89 --> 00:28:47,31 know well and I I guess I The challenge is that we don't know exactly how this is 312 00:28:47,32 --> 00:28:54,32 going to play out and. You know that might be something that comes up if 313 00:28:54,38 --> 00:28:54,64 we do 314 00:28:54,65 --> 00:29:01,51 a master site plan for instance you know they might choose to have the hospital be 315 00:29:01,52 --> 00:29:06,84 distinctly different than the donut hole they might choose that each quadrant of 316 00:29:06,85 --> 00:29:12,07 the donut hole be different and that the community space element if it was in the 317 00:29:12,08 --> 00:29:18,97 middle of the block for instance and so I guess. This is although it's understand 318 00:29:19,72 --> 00:29:21,98 what it's really saying is that it should be 319 00:29:21,99 --> 00:29:28,58 a consideration how you pick light fixtures and color and temperature to. 320 00:29:31,00 --> 00:29:37,24 Define this that it will affect impact people's perception. 321 00:29:39,46 --> 00:29:45,53 But it's not specified it's it's saying that it should be an overt decision but you 322 00:29:45,54 --> 00:29:47,26 know what that decision should be. 323 00:29:53,39 --> 00:29:59,49 Looked and you know. Question. OK. 324 00:30:00,73 --> 00:30:07,53 Back to. Basing my questions on page four where Section two point two is 325 00:30:07,54 --> 00:30:14,15 talking about bug standards. And I just nature and help in remembering how we have 326 00:30:14,16 --> 00:30:16,83 a. When there's 327 00:30:16,84 --> 00:30:21,83 a full cut off required and when it's not an especially on 328 00:30:21,84 --> 00:30:26,81 a I'm thinking about especially in the hills and we may have done things other ways 329 00:30:26,82 --> 00:30:31,28 before but when we're talking about up lighting that can be 330 00:30:31,65 --> 00:30:36,11 a value three or four that doesn't seem to be meeting our objectives of having no 331 00:30:36,12 --> 00:30:39,20 up lighting so we spent 332 00:30:39,21 --> 00:30:46,00 a long time talking with. With Denise with 333 00:30:46,01 --> 00:30:52,90 this. And. So for instance you 334 00:30:52,91 --> 00:30:59,88 can see under it says for street lighting the you should be equal to zero. And 335 00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:07,71 for other or other life there are sometimes benefits in terms of it for instance if 336 00:31:07,72 --> 00:31:12,85 you use bollards having one of the downsides of bollards is that you can't if they 337 00:31:12,86 --> 00:31:19,26 don't tend to like. People's faces and therefore people don't feel safe and so some 338 00:31:19,30 --> 00:31:25,50 plotting may be appropriate. The we started to 339 00:31:25,51 --> 00:31:31,38 change some of this there is there are full cut offs specified elsewhere in the 340 00:31:31,39 --> 00:31:36,38 standards and when I need to do is go back and talk to Denise about that. 341 00:31:38,04 --> 00:31:44,71 Because it's clear that on circulation facilities I believe it says no 342 00:31:44,90 --> 00:31:50,95 then it should be full cut off but for instance that isn't 343 00:31:51,94 --> 00:31:53,61 in parking lots which seems like 344 00:31:53,62 --> 00:31:58,76 a really logical place that it would be full. So we're we're trying to explore some 345 00:31:58,77 --> 00:32:03,90 of this for the next draft to clarify it because you guys brought it up which was 346 00:32:03,91 --> 00:32:09,52 helpful because it made us go look although I did one of the things that I went 347 00:32:09,53 --> 00:32:15,83 back to double check. Denise Denise and I quite 348 00:32:15,84 --> 00:32:22,67 a bit of conversation about how much we needed to. Changed the lighting 349 00:32:22,68 --> 00:32:28,53 being on the health side and I think because the way pictures are now with. 350 00:32:30,82 --> 00:32:34,41 Shields and various they're not filters. 351 00:32:37,77 --> 00:32:44,24 So yeah they're not false sure that's not the word but thank you I appreciate my 352 00:32:44,86 --> 00:32:51,18 crowdsource yardstick. She was not as 353 00:32:51,19 --> 00:32:55,85 concerned about that on the health side with like side and we went back and forth 354 00:32:55,86 --> 00:32:57,57 a lot because I want that I know that was 355 00:32:57,58 --> 00:33:04,07 a concern so let's just say that we're going to I'll go back and check in with her 356 00:33:04,08 --> 00:33:09,62 about the up lighting and the full cutoff I think that because of some of the tools 357 00:33:09,63 --> 00:33:16,16 that are. Available the lights are different than they were when we just simply 358 00:33:16,17 --> 00:33:21,15 said everything has to be for cut off and I need to go back and update my memory 359 00:33:21,16 --> 00:33:26,53 banks if I could I don't know if this is would be one hundred percent true but if 360 00:33:26,54 --> 00:33:32,67 you think about the one to the fourth one over here the. Acceptable in the most and 361 00:33:33,16 --> 00:33:40,04 the most urban areas. In most urban bus or. I 362 00:33:40,06 --> 00:33:44,42 think about that and I can see how that would be appropriate but is there seems to 363 00:33:44,43 --> 00:33:46,68 me that up lighting would probably have some sort of 364 00:33:46,68 --> 00:33:51,33 a height limit you know so you wouldn't want to start up lighting any higher than. 365 00:33:52,70 --> 00:33:58,70 Some some number of inches or feet off the ground and again I don't know if that's 366 00:33:58,71 --> 00:34:02,86 one hundred percent true or other instances in which it up lighting makes sense at 367 00:34:02,87 --> 00:34:09,48 a higher level but it. You know I'm saying I do and so for instance that one that 368 00:34:09,64 --> 00:34:16,06 fourth one over that says acceptable in most urban Plaza areas that actually. I 369 00:34:16,07 --> 00:34:21,28 think I know this picture it actually has a solid lid and 370 00:34:21,29 --> 00:34:25,54 a light is going up and bouncing back down so you have some up lighting just 371 00:34:25,55 --> 00:34:29,83 because it's not fully enclosed on the sides but it is not projecting up right at 372 00:34:29,84 --> 00:34:33,08 the top Yeah I suspected that but I'm just trying to think you know I don't know 373 00:34:33,09 --> 00:34:34,85 that there be any point except for 374 00:34:34,86 --> 00:34:41,85 a start up like you know point that's higher than. Some number because then you 375 00:34:41,86 --> 00:34:47,31 would see it from further distance offside it wouldn't necessarily meet the it 376 00:34:47,32 --> 00:34:50,47 wouldn't help the safety requirements that you're referring to and that's when they 377 00:34:50,48 --> 00:34:54,75 were just Pete seems to be overkill actually well and we don't usually allow any up 378 00:34:54,76 --> 00:35:01,14 landing on the buildings for instance recall it was important to to them. Have some 379 00:35:01,15 --> 00:35:06,06 white washing down the walls and washing the walls because otherwise it's black 380 00:35:06,10 --> 00:35:11,63 above the canopy and we required all of that to be washing down right not washing 381 00:35:11,64 --> 00:35:12,24 up so 382 00:35:12,67 --> 00:35:17,88 a lot of times it is it doesn't preclude something it just means you have to do it 383 00:35:17,96 --> 00:35:18,08 in 384 00:35:18,09 --> 00:35:25,33 a less informing way. So OK Well we'll talk about this more with her OK can 385 00:35:25,34 --> 00:35:30,82 I continue on that you know yes thanks Jeff that's exactly were thinking too it 386 00:35:31,05 --> 00:35:36,82 just as you were saying it if there was say. These up lighting values of three or 387 00:35:36,83 --> 00:35:43,39 maybe even four if we have two I would be allowed only up to certain height 388 00:35:43,50 --> 00:35:46,39 fixtures because as you said they're intended for 389 00:35:46,40 --> 00:35:51,19 a pedestrian scale or whatever it is and so all the fixtures are limited to fifteen 390 00:35:51,51 --> 00:35:55,86 feet that's plenty high for you to see my face. 391 00:35:58,46 --> 00:36:04,32 Yeah. You know this because well was it that I'm sorry I thought you were 392 00:36:05,00 --> 00:36:06,89 asking was there 393 00:36:06,90 --> 00:36:13,64 a limit on how high the fixtures could be. Jeff I think we're saying that could 394 00:36:13,65 --> 00:36:19,26 there be a separate limit on ones that have a higher value. Have 395 00:36:19,27 --> 00:36:23,38 a lower height limit on ones with up lighting with any up lighting. 396 00:36:28,65 --> 00:36:32,77 Right. There might think about. 397 00:36:46,08 --> 00:36:52,44 My other one going backwards pitch for I mean pitch three nation level standards. 398 00:36:53,93 --> 00:37:00,87 The definitions here are of minimum. Elimination and one of the problems. 399 00:37:01,95 --> 00:37:03,47 I've experienced and as 400 00:37:03,48 --> 00:37:08,51 a client when you're saying how lights have changed so much over time we don't have 401 00:37:08,52 --> 00:37:12,38 a maximum you know where there is 402 00:37:12,39 --> 00:37:15,96 a maximum because you have an average to minimum ratio. 403 00:37:19,13 --> 00:37:22,59 But you know let me take a step back for 404 00:37:22,60 --> 00:37:28,94 a second part of the reason that we had Denise. Provide these aluminum and 405 00:37:29,02 --> 00:37:35,28 illumination levels Fandor it's Was that the handbook that they rely on. 406 00:37:39,42 --> 00:37:45,55 Is it sixteen hundred dollars it's not cheap to access it the idea is that for most 407 00:37:45,56 --> 00:37:51,64 projects that happened in the master planned community they would have 408 00:37:51,65 --> 00:37:55,92 a lighting designer and the lighting designer would actually use the elimination 409 00:37:55,96 --> 00:38:02,78 Engineering Society of North America standards. But the idea behind providing this 410 00:38:02,79 --> 00:38:03,81 chart is if you have 411 00:38:03,82 --> 00:38:10,43 a small project it may not be economically viable to. To 412 00:38:10,44 --> 00:38:10,88 hire 413 00:38:10,89 --> 00:38:17,87 a consultant or your consultant might not have that handbook and we felt 414 00:38:17,88 --> 00:38:19,14 it was necessary as 415 00:38:19,15 --> 00:38:24,34 a public document that was regulating it that we made it available to. 416 00:38:25,64 --> 00:38:30,29 Smaller entities that might be having to design. 417 00:38:32,57 --> 00:38:33,93 Yeah and that's been it's been 418 00:38:33,94 --> 00:38:39,27 a really great tool I'm glad for its introduction whenever it came in rally or 419 00:38:39,28 --> 00:38:46,07 wherever we first saw it so in that international design standard 420 00:38:46,46 --> 00:38:47,12 the city of as 421 00:38:47,13 --> 00:38:52,96 a quad may prefer to have lower lumination levels than somewhere else because it's 422 00:38:52,97 --> 00:38:59,50 a Intermountain little. Place that is preserving its 423 00:38:59,51 --> 00:39:02,41 character for the natural environment around it or whatever it S. 424 00:39:02,70 --> 00:39:04,47 So if while we're taking is 425 00:39:04,89 --> 00:39:09,02 a page out of the book of the international standard it would be nice to know 426 00:39:09,03 --> 00:39:13,14 whether that's not too bright for us. So. 427 00:39:20,49 --> 00:39:25,78 I'm relying on our consultant and I guess what I have to say is that Denise has 428 00:39:25,79 --> 00:39:32,52 been and we've been working with her for you remember when we did the 429 00:39:32,53 --> 00:39:37,89 park and ride OK That's when we started working with maybe ten years and. 430 00:39:41,15 --> 00:39:46,29 You know I guess because of my experience in working with her and I'm I'm hesitant 431 00:39:46,30 --> 00:39:49,45 to try and put maximums on. 432 00:40:05,23 --> 00:40:06,66 Hey Dan you're not in 433 00:40:06,67 --> 00:40:14,83 a microphone. Yet 434 00:40:18,32 --> 00:40:24,33 OK. Well I believe what he said was that the. 435 00:40:25,60 --> 00:40:32,12 That the table in two point one is about half of the levels that are used in the 436 00:40:32,13 --> 00:40:39,10 menu in tipis I think you said that the math is we're use but the values were 437 00:40:39,11 --> 00:40:43,56 half. Thank you very much for that. 438 00:40:48,12 --> 00:40:54,37 Anything else Nina. OK Stephanie. Quick clarification question Whose 439 00:40:54,38 --> 00:40:57,59 responsibility is it necessarily to monitor or you know you have 440 00:40:57,60 --> 00:41:00,79 a development agreement here and then you have Lakeside development remember here 441 00:41:00,80 --> 00:41:03,27 as well however here when someone starts 442 00:41:03,28 --> 00:41:07,52 a building and you kind of know what's going to go in around them whose 443 00:41:07,53 --> 00:41:11,15 responsibility is to say OK well you're going to have four storey town homes next 444 00:41:11,16 --> 00:41:15,94 to eventually that you should use this kind of lighting does that kind of 445 00:41:16,60 --> 00:41:21,47 conversation come up in the city review of things knowing what the potential uses 446 00:41:21,48 --> 00:41:24,88 are in the neighboring properties even though they're under 447 00:41:24,89 --> 00:41:31,87 a different development. So are 448 00:41:31,88 --> 00:41:35,09 you think you Stephanie that that the way you might why 449 00:41:35,48 --> 00:41:38,89 a medical office building might not be compatible with 450 00:41:39,21 --> 00:41:44,05 a residential project say they plan to medical residents and medical building next 451 00:41:44,06 --> 00:41:49,61 year but you know that four storey residential town homes are going to go in within 452 00:41:49,62 --> 00:41:54,24 three years next door do you plan the lighting accordingly or you're just kind of 453 00:41:54,25 --> 00:41:58,89 OK this is what's here now we plan for what's here now well I guess. 454 00:42:01,38 --> 00:42:07,01 I'm thinking that the lighting in in general is designed 455 00:42:07,81 --> 00:42:13,53 for an urban environment in which you're trying to like to. 456 00:42:14,78 --> 00:42:21,72 Say fairly. And so I wouldn't think that it would 457 00:42:21,73 --> 00:42:27,89 be likely to be compatible. I'm trying I'm cycling through 458 00:42:27,90 --> 00:42:31,70 a couple of different scenarios in my head and come up with one that was thinking 459 00:42:31,71 --> 00:42:35,19 specifically Lakeside because that may not happen for twenty years now and it could 460 00:42:35,20 --> 00:42:39,18 happen in two years right so you know do you like for what's there now or do you 461 00:42:39,19 --> 00:42:44,46 like well most of what you're most of what you're lighting or what we're regulating 462 00:42:44,47 --> 00:42:50,93 in terms of lighting is extra. And most of that is there for. 463 00:42:52,06 --> 00:42:58,39 The first. Story. We do ask them to take into consideration. 464 00:42:59,46 --> 00:43:01,79 But most of that doesn't you know there's not 465 00:43:01,80 --> 00:43:08,38 a lot of still and it's not consistent. So I am not really 466 00:43:08,39 --> 00:43:09,99 I am not thinking of 467 00:43:10,00 --> 00:43:16,57 a scenario that concerns me. Where the levels were so incompatible that it would be 468 00:43:16,58 --> 00:43:18,96 a problem I think it's 469 00:43:18,97 --> 00:43:23,33 a good question though because with you know I've had the same questions around 470 00:43:23,34 --> 00:43:30,09 things like roads and parking. Recreational spaces that sort of thing 471 00:43:30,10 --> 00:43:34,59 because you know on the one hand we may not know what's going there but we know 472 00:43:34,60 --> 00:43:35,44 that it's 473 00:43:35,45 --> 00:43:41,25 a zone for residential or zoned for retail or commercial or whatever. But on the 474 00:43:41,26 --> 00:43:47,60 other hand we we took everything as an individual you know this block here. Who 475 00:43:47,61 --> 00:43:51,87 knows what impact we're creating the future neighborhood and so I know there are 476 00:43:51,88 --> 00:43:54,42 several times when we have talked about you know 477 00:43:54,47 --> 00:43:59,81 a community and say OK what's going on and this block you know what's what do we 478 00:43:59,82 --> 00:44:02,72 think's going to happen here and sometimes we have information and sometimes we 479 00:44:02,73 --> 00:44:07,87 don't but I do like the question because. We should all be thinking that way I 480 00:44:07,88 --> 00:44:13,96 think even though we might not have all the answers but. Yeah 481 00:44:14,77 --> 00:44:18,19 I don't think I'm very concerned in this case because I agree I think that the 482 00:44:18,20 --> 00:44:23,62 standards are fairly mellow in this the in the case of having a major impact on 483 00:44:23,62 --> 00:44:27,01 a community of you know a block away or a can you know half 484 00:44:27,01 --> 00:44:31,41 a mile away or whatever Lakeside in particular that's not going to close but what's 485 00:44:31,41 --> 00:44:34,87 happening on the Microsoft Project is so we don't know what's happening as it might 486 00:44:34,87 --> 00:44:34,97 be 487 00:44:34,98 --> 00:44:38,73 a bigger question if what happens on the Microsoft Project How does that impact West 488 00:44:38,75 --> 00:44:44,15 Highland Park I was at impact. Lakeside if they're not being built yet well so one 489 00:44:44,16 --> 00:44:46,35 thing that maybe will give you 490 00:44:46,36 --> 00:44:52,82 a bit of comfort is that streets are not let based on their land use. They're based 491 00:44:52,86 --> 00:44:59,73 on. Travel speeds and volumes and things like that so the street 492 00:44:59,74 --> 00:45:06,62 classifications sets the level. So it's more about what's happening behind the 493 00:45:06,63 --> 00:45:11,74 curb. And and lighting levels and and generally were lighting to 494 00:45:11,75 --> 00:45:18,53 a fairly low level except in in whatever way you need to like say entrances to draw 495 00:45:18,71 --> 00:45:24,47 you know to make the environment more legible and helps so it's not just so uniform 496 00:45:24,48 --> 00:45:30,09 that you don't know where entries or stairs or things are places where you need to 497 00:45:30,10 --> 00:45:35,91 pay more attention Michel 498 00:45:37,23 --> 00:45:42,71 thanks Jeff he said the question about internal illumination Swe says 499 00:45:42,72 --> 00:45:47,38 a beautiful glass was like four stories tall Are there any limits on how much and 500 00:45:47,39 --> 00:45:49,75 you to talk about briefly how much like can come out of 501 00:45:50,07 --> 00:45:56,95 a design like that well so what the way this is written is we're asking for it so 502 00:45:56,96 --> 00:46:01,82 we asked for a photo metric plan so and we asked that to be 503 00:46:01,86 --> 00:46:07,73 a. Comprehensive metric plan so we're looking at all lighting sources 504 00:46:08,73 --> 00:46:15,26 now how much that takes into account internal lumination I think if there was 505 00:46:15,27 --> 00:46:21,12 a special wall like that we my you know question how it was reflected in the phone 506 00:46:21,13 --> 00:46:23,70 a metric plan but generally I don't think we get 507 00:46:23,71 --> 00:46:29,51 a lot of benefit. Externally from the internal image but we do ask for it. 508 00:46:31,51 --> 00:46:32,71 And yeah it's 509 00:46:32,72 --> 00:46:38,45 a good question to I. I'll share my opinion here because I never do that. I 510 00:46:38,46 --> 00:46:42,61 actually think sometimes us what can add to the beauty of the hillside you know at 511 00:46:42,62 --> 00:46:46,58 night or whatever if you look at the page you know under three dots except six page 512 00:46:46,59 --> 00:46:51,35 fourteen that image the light emphasise the architecture that kind of thing to me 513 00:46:51,67 --> 00:46:56,86 adds to the beauty I think and and doesn't take away from that from the beauty of 514 00:46:56,87 --> 00:46:58,16 it you know as opposed to just 515 00:46:58,17 --> 00:47:03,71 a bunch of. Like you know I think so so I think if it's done properly like Swedish 516 00:47:03,72 --> 00:47:03,99 has done 517 00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:10,23 a really nice job of making it very pretty. I think it can add value so. But I 518 00:47:10,24 --> 00:47:13,06 guess each one of those will be looked at individually right well and that's 519 00:47:13,07 --> 00:47:13,56 a that's 520 00:47:13,57 --> 00:47:17,91 a good point we brought this up last time but I'm not sure of all the commissioners 521 00:47:17,92 --> 00:47:22,42 for there is to repeat it which is that the. 522 00:47:24,43 --> 00:47:30,50 Ambulance days have to be let to Operation Levels operating room levels and they 523 00:47:30,52 --> 00:47:33,12 are not let to that level all the time but there is 524 00:47:33,12 --> 00:47:36,91 a button that they can hit and I think it takes it to something like forty or fifty 525 00:47:36,91 --> 00:47:39,96 foot candles which is just you know like 526 00:47:39,97 --> 00:47:45,78 a really over let parking lot and so this is really exponentially greater but of 527 00:47:45,79 --> 00:47:50,47 course if you're having to operate on someone out in an ambulance you you want it 528 00:47:50,48 --> 00:47:53,98 very well lit and and I think Swedish did 529 00:47:53,99 --> 00:48:00,84 a good job of looking at materials and providing. Solid walls and 530 00:48:00,85 --> 00:48:05,40 sort of strategically positioning the space so that for instance from squawk 531 00:48:05,41 --> 00:48:09,87 mountain it really tried they tried to minimize how much that light could spill out 532 00:48:09,88 --> 00:48:11,97 of that area and make it into 533 00:48:11,98 --> 00:48:18,36 a you know sort of football stadium. So you know there are certain things like 534 00:48:18,37 --> 00:48:19,76 pools and A.T.M. 535 00:48:19,77 --> 00:48:24,58 Machines that have pretty high levels that are required by law and then there are 536 00:48:24,59 --> 00:48:30,51 other things where there's more discretion and we get to rely on the. Lighting 537 00:48:30,52 --> 00:48:33,31 standards so you know it's kind of 538 00:48:33,32 --> 00:48:36,75 a collaborative thing based on the design of the time it but what we're really 539 00:48:36,76 --> 00:48:37,77 trying to do is set up 540 00:48:37,78 --> 00:48:44,62 a good. Expectation about those lighting levels so that we have the tools 541 00:48:44,63 --> 00:48:51,06 to. Help them understand what the community expectation is which is I think what 542 00:48:51,07 --> 00:48:57,94 you're trying to bring up. OK Chantelle that you having there Tim. 543 00:49:00,48 --> 00:49:03,73 Did you have anything you wanted to add there's not 544 00:49:03,74 --> 00:49:09,13 a lot at the and on page fifteen that signed guidelines and I didn't know yeah 545 00:49:09,14 --> 00:49:13,61 something that you might want to. Know I was thinking about that you know. 546 00:49:18,89 --> 00:49:23,58 No I mean somebody brought up something to me the other day they were surprised. 547 00:49:25,46 --> 00:49:30,05 About the Sunni's sign. And you know they thought it was 548 00:49:30,06 --> 00:49:35,86 a little out of character to the community and I went back and I looked at it 549 00:49:35,87 --> 00:49:39,22 myself and of course I didn't do measurements on it but I was trying to think back 550 00:49:39,23 --> 00:49:45,46 to the guidelines and so forth and I believe it's within I mean I'm assuming and I 551 00:49:45,47 --> 00:49:49,05 believe it's within the guidelines I don't think it's I think it's really more 552 00:49:49,06 --> 00:49:54,44 a question of for treating as opposed to the the location or the size of it OK and 553 00:49:54,45 --> 00:50:01,18 so it made me wonder you know are there ways. It didn't bother me when I first saw 554 00:50:01,19 --> 00:50:04,92 it and I don't much of it bothers me now but it made me wonder you know was there 555 00:50:04,93 --> 00:50:08,94 a way for them to for them to sort of. Take advantage of 556 00:50:08,95 --> 00:50:11,60 a little bit of the situation and maybe bring it out 557 00:50:11,61 --> 00:50:16,16 a little bit further I don't know if there's any. In the guideline to say you know 558 00:50:16,31 --> 00:50:19,41 what your sign has to be this side that side they're going to be on this side of 559 00:50:19,42 --> 00:50:23,71 the building you know and one of these it has to be this dimension but I didn't say 560 00:50:23,72 --> 00:50:27,42 that you can't stick it out so far they happen to be on 561 00:50:27,43 --> 00:50:31,44 a corner so maybe those are not for turning onto the sidewalk per se but they're 562 00:50:31,45 --> 00:50:35,07 right out the entrance of the morning you know I'm saying you know you know what 563 00:50:35,08 --> 00:50:39,23 I'm referring to right so again I'm not I'm not making 564 00:50:39,24 --> 00:50:43,60 a planner and somebody did ask me about it maybe just curious about it. I was just 565 00:50:43,61 --> 00:50:49,84 going to look at this what we had in mind in the guidelines. And I guess to bring 566 00:50:49,85 --> 00:50:50,15 it around 567 00:50:50,16 --> 00:50:54,58 a Swedish then or to this donut hole is you know could something like that happen 568 00:50:54,59 --> 00:50:55,08 let's say there's 569 00:50:55,09 --> 00:51:00,45 a pharmacy put on the corner somewhere and could they set the sign in such 570 00:51:00,46 --> 00:51:04,11 a way that sort of goes against the guidelines to some degree but really isn't 571 00:51:04,12 --> 00:51:10,84 technically against those guidelines you know I mean. The intent Yeah 572 00:51:11,33 --> 00:51:17,92 yeah. To look into that yeah 573 00:51:18,29 --> 00:51:20,48 I mean if you think about all of it yeah again I don't know if it's 574 00:51:20,49 --> 00:51:25,68 a problem I just you know you never know but I don't have anything else on that 575 00:51:25,69 --> 00:51:30,67 page now OK to you guys I mean. Michael No but it does kind of lead me to question 576 00:51:30,68 --> 00:51:36,29 here when we and this pertains to the greater view of these development agreements 577 00:51:36,30 --> 00:51:40,77 here we flew up the property to the east of eight thousand you were going to kind 578 00:51:40,78 --> 00:51:46,13 of limit the visibility of Swedish from Highlands drive. Will there ever be any 579 00:51:46,14 --> 00:51:51,19 discussion about. An island sign out at that intersection to let people know what's 580 00:51:51,20 --> 00:51:55,13 back there so that's part of you know I mentioned 581 00:51:55,14 --> 00:51:59,32 a minute ago that we were talking about signs and we're putting something in the 582 00:51:59,33 --> 00:52:05,97 development agreement in the main body that allows offsite signage. For way 583 00:52:05,98 --> 00:52:12,63 finding people because. You know that there's always been buildings anticipated on 584 00:52:12,68 --> 00:52:18,91 blocks twenty five to twenty seven but you know as as we said hospitals learning as 585 00:52:18,92 --> 00:52:22,50 they're going along you know where the challenges what do they think are the key 586 00:52:22,51 --> 00:52:26,40 decision making points and we want to ensure that people can find their way 587 00:52:26,47 --> 00:52:31,71 especially to them urgency sure and so we're talking with them now about certain 588 00:52:31,72 --> 00:52:33,48 kinds of signs that we're going to probably have 589 00:52:33,49 --> 00:52:37,42 a long Highlands drive OK And I think that might lead to Jeff's concern there about 590 00:52:37,87 --> 00:52:40,04 a sign that maybe. It's 591 00:52:40,05 --> 00:52:45,97 a little desperate from the rest of the design so which which development agreement 592 00:52:45,98 --> 00:52:51,33 would regulate that signage design Well most of these are actually going to fall 593 00:52:51,34 --> 00:52:57,88 into traffic signs OK. In terms of some of the ones we're talking about other ones 594 00:52:57,93 --> 00:53:03,34 are that's where having basically one unified sign code is good because it's not 595 00:53:03,35 --> 00:53:08,71 different so we're looking at having some of those way finding kiosks that we 596 00:53:08,76 --> 00:53:09,36 created for 597 00:53:09,37 --> 00:53:14,46 a rally that may include Swedish but would not technically be within the boundaries 598 00:53:14,47 --> 00:53:19,71 of their development agreement so there are some of those kiosks and then there are 599 00:53:19,72 --> 00:53:24,13 some kinds of traffic signs you know for instance potentially adding something to 600 00:53:24,14 --> 00:53:30,17 the pedestrian bridge drive I got to use way finding with an official document work 601 00:53:30,83 --> 00:53:34,14 thank you just give you credit for that year later. 602 00:53:41,90 --> 00:53:44,46 I think traffic signs like that age in 603 00:53:44,47 --> 00:53:49,17 a circle that are on the pedestrian bridge now but they're right but you know one 604 00:53:49,18 --> 00:53:55,50 of the things that we added with rally and I think. You know it used to be 605 00:53:55,65 --> 00:54:01,20 something we really avoided and we've since. Lightened up and I think it was 606 00:54:01,57 --> 00:54:07,23 a good approach is that certain informational and directional signs need the logo 607 00:54:07,24 --> 00:54:11,95 of the business associated with them because it makes it more meaningful So for 608 00:54:11,96 --> 00:54:16,37 instance a parking sign that says this is parking for P.C.C. 609 00:54:16,38 --> 00:54:19,22 Or Wholefoods or something is more meaningful than just 610 00:54:19,23 --> 00:54:25,44 a parking sign and so in the same way that an age that says Swedish as opposed to 611 00:54:25,45 --> 00:54:32,03 just an age may be more informational than just the most minimal 612 00:54:32,04 --> 00:54:37,19 logo and so that's the kind of thing especially as an essential facility that we 613 00:54:37,20 --> 00:54:40,46 would be open we are open and are talking about 614 00:54:44,55 --> 00:54:51,21 OK. You know some signs OK let's move on to 615 00:54:51,22 --> 00:54:56,15 sustainability Stane ability so. 616 00:54:58,71 --> 00:55:03,77 This chapter we started with the sort of the structure of Lakeside. 617 00:55:06,10 --> 00:55:12,30 Updating all the information. We have. The 618 00:55:12,31 --> 00:55:15,87 tools you know because like so I was going to be built over 619 00:55:15,88 --> 00:55:20,16 a number of years with many different kinds of neighborhoods and one was going to 620 00:55:20,17 --> 00:55:23,70 be built in the next few years in other words going to be built much further out. 621 00:55:28,32 --> 00:55:34,99 It was not the basic structure was useful but some of the specifics weren't and 622 00:55:35,00 --> 00:55:41,07 so the way this has been set up is with. Maintaining the kind of. 623 00:55:42,24 --> 00:55:47,16 High level of sustainability that Swedish did in their first buildings but then 624 00:55:47,17 --> 00:55:53,82 asking them to continue to stretch and grow that level of sustainability as they 625 00:55:53,83 --> 00:56:00,51 develop over time and so there are. You know building to lead 626 00:56:00,52 --> 00:56:06,80 silver and then having you know an additional either leadership 627 00:56:06,81 --> 00:56:07,98 innovation and 628 00:56:07,99 --> 00:56:13,78 a technology innovation over the course of building out the rest of the project. So 629 00:56:14,29 --> 00:56:20,83 few questions one is the reference to of fun. Or 630 00:56:20,84 --> 00:56:26,00 gondola it's fun yes so often a killer is 631 00:56:26,01 --> 00:56:28,37 a track that would go up hill right or 632 00:56:28,38 --> 00:56:33,58 a gondola is it like the kind that suspended I don't know what I like in Portland 633 00:56:33,73 --> 00:56:33,87 for 634 00:56:33,88 --> 00:56:42,01 a medical Hill they have the exact OK And we know this is ambitious and. What 635 00:56:42,08 --> 00:56:47,20 but yeah well as I said to them in their hesitation. 636 00:56:49,23 --> 00:56:49,92 It is part of 637 00:56:49,93 --> 00:56:53,73 a list so they're not required to do it I mean it's also in the like side 638 00:56:53,74 --> 00:56:57,60 development agreement and maybe there's an opportunity to partner and you just 639 00:56:57,61 --> 00:56:59,43 never know what may happen over the course of 640 00:56:59,44 --> 00:57:05,35 a development so in looking at these two sections it seems like the spectrum of the 641 00:57:05,36 --> 00:57:12,23 options are very wide as far as cost and I wonder if there's 642 00:57:12,27 --> 00:57:16,31 some African be made to sort of make it more uniform you know in 643 00:57:16,32 --> 00:57:20,40 a sense you know like it just seems like they can go from 644 00:57:20,41 --> 00:57:22,99 a very low cost and I don't mean Swedish in particular but 645 00:57:23,00 --> 00:57:28,37 a lot of times you know these guidelines go on to other developments it's so they 646 00:57:28,38 --> 00:57:28,86 can go for 647 00:57:28,87 --> 00:57:36,09 a very cheap option gondola which is the extraordinary expensive option and 648 00:57:36,42 --> 00:57:42,12 so I just curious why this in comparison to cheaper so. 649 00:57:43,71 --> 00:57:45,48 There was definitely an intent to have 650 00:57:45,49 --> 00:57:52,39 a spectrum. Office of sustainability in collaboration with. 651 00:57:55,66 --> 00:58:01,41 Swedish and Keith and Dan. Tried to come up with 652 00:58:01,61 --> 00:58:02,74 a list that was 653 00:58:02,75 --> 00:58:08,11 a range because it's hard to predict some of these it's hard to predict what the 654 00:58:08,12 --> 00:58:13,46 cost will be now or even the feasibility of some of them now and we wanted things 655 00:58:13,55 --> 00:58:20,46 that the phrase I was would stretch and not break. And they 656 00:58:20,47 --> 00:58:26,74 are interested in stretching them and so because of the uncertainty of some of 657 00:58:26,75 --> 00:58:29,70 these we. Wanted to have 658 00:58:29,71 --> 00:58:36,12 a range and I don't think they think of any of these as being. Here now. 659 00:58:37,64 --> 00:58:43,66 Gondolas side. I think they thought that this was 660 00:58:43,67 --> 00:58:49,50 a good range but I think you know I'm not expert enough in all the different ones 661 00:58:49,56 --> 00:58:53,38 to speak to specific you know compare ability of various rights. 662 00:58:59,57 --> 00:59:06,47 Michael. M I've been sustainable here some are in the one that's 663 00:59:06,48 --> 00:59:12,66 online and look at three point four point one. So it says in addition to half way 664 00:59:12,67 --> 00:59:17,52 through there in addition the project will provide at least one when we refer to 665 00:59:17,53 --> 00:59:23,88 the project is at the overall Swedish property so with the brief it they gave us 666 00:59:23,89 --> 00:59:28,72 kicking off this meeting have they pretty much already met Delta haven't they 667 00:59:28,73 --> 00:59:35,56 already know what. The 668 00:59:35,57 --> 00:59:41,43 energy optimization strategy they have for the first building but not. For later 669 00:59:41,44 --> 00:59:42,80 build but if they were to build 670 00:59:42,99 --> 00:59:46,67 a regular building for the brief of the year this was their energy was so good that 671 00:59:46,72 --> 00:59:52,78 almost they could potentially meet that without them until it's over so so we're 672 00:59:52,79 --> 00:59:57,43 still going to have the entire project will be the energy sustainability metric or 673 00:59:57,44 --> 01:00:03,75 is it. Are you are you saying I think the point that Michael's brought up are big 674 01:00:03,76 --> 01:00:08,57 probably build the tent and meet the intent of well I think your point has been 675 01:00:08,58 --> 01:00:14,87 that you that that your understanding was that these were on subsequent buildings 676 01:00:15,34 --> 01:00:21,11 and not the buildings they boarded I'm fine either way but I want to be OK and. 677 01:00:22,35 --> 01:00:26,67 Because I don't want to have this image in your mind and then they build whatever 678 01:00:26,68 --> 01:00:30,29 they want and they can say we were already mad just want to so it's retroactive 679 01:00:30,30 --> 01:00:33,98 Yeah I just want to be clear that what we're we're agreeing to here because I think 680 01:00:34,64 --> 01:00:38,17 you persist in the very too much you're not sustainable because it costs 681 01:00:38,18 --> 01:00:42,68 a lot of money for everything and to make that money you have to spend resources so 682 01:00:43,10 --> 01:00:43,38 we can have 683 01:00:43,39 --> 01:00:46,54 a very green item built in the building and you've wasted millions of dollars 684 01:00:46,55 --> 01:00:51,63 getting the money to pay for it and it's not sustainable so. I just want to make 685 01:00:51,64 --> 01:00:53,46 sure that we're clear about what we're talking about OK. 686 01:00:59,31 --> 01:01:05,67 So the chair and comment about the section is whenever I see system being 687 01:01:05,68 --> 01:01:07,66 used I'm always looking for 688 01:01:07,67 --> 01:01:14,63 a triple bottom line approach of it and I get very annoyed when sustained but 689 01:01:14,64 --> 01:01:17,88 it's used instead F. And family and I do see that 690 01:01:17,89 --> 01:01:24,54 a lot of. The places where. That section I really just 691 01:01:24,55 --> 01:01:31,45 plain and family. Benefits. Very few of those mentioned any social 692 01:01:32,21 --> 01:01:36,43 I can make benefits and. We could. 693 01:01:39,11 --> 01:01:45,65 Try to find. Some cross-section and some of those that would have 694 01:01:45,96 --> 01:01:52,84 more of an economic social benefits and some of them. Talk about 695 01:01:52,85 --> 01:01:55,30 material is. Just 696 01:01:55,31 --> 01:02:02,02 a be harvested Is there an inflammatory thing but fair trade small and so 697 01:02:02,03 --> 01:02:08,95 shall I kind of mean part of things. To. Talk about 698 01:02:09,24 --> 01:02:15,26 we talking about to lose and to look to the old section and so very late 699 01:02:16,01 --> 01:02:22,23 Tuesday. Like you know this is probably not the section to address low income. 700 01:02:23,30 --> 01:02:29,43 Housing things like that but at least. Inexpensive transportation anything that 701 01:02:29,44 --> 01:02:35,57 could help lower income. Patients. 702 01:02:36,67 --> 01:02:42,87 Users to festivities to access it. To access it more easily so 703 01:02:43,47 --> 01:02:50,47 I don't have any specific but. Under some kind of 704 01:02:50,48 --> 01:02:55,54 a connection to the park and ride the first twenty three point one. Does mention 705 01:02:56,10 --> 01:03:01,25 the proximity to the transit center with the parking right there which I think I 706 01:03:01,26 --> 01:03:06,15 mentioned earlier to me. It's 707 01:03:06,16 --> 01:03:13,03 a proximity is close enough to make it. Very usable for 708 01:03:13,04 --> 01:03:17,93 a lot of people so some kind of connection there would add to that. 709 01:03:20,38 --> 01:03:27,23 Social benefits but I would also try to. Be the most exciting 710 01:03:27,31 --> 01:03:33,99 part of all of this was the reference to the gun which I think. It's connective 711 01:03:34,72 --> 01:03:41,22 benefits for the city. And probably more sustainable. 712 01:03:42,91 --> 01:03:49,04 Sustainable triple bottom line sustainable. There mentioned there are some 713 01:03:49,67 --> 01:03:56,59 so just to let you know that we've been talking with Swedish and we've reached. I 714 01:03:56,60 --> 01:04:01,21 think we reached agreement on some language that we're going to make. As 715 01:04:01,22 --> 01:04:07,60 a commitment on transit. In particular not providing the transit but 716 01:04:07,61 --> 01:04:14,28 participating in the city to leverage. In that 717 01:04:14,40 --> 01:04:18,17 area so you know I think that the. 718 01:04:21,83 --> 01:04:27,53 Triple Bottom line I think we're you know the city and Swedish agrees is an 719 01:04:27,82 --> 01:04:34,75 important thing and this is more resource focused. I do think that some of the you 720 01:04:34,76 --> 01:04:41,39 know things like the organic. Things do have. You know they're not just an 721 01:04:41,40 --> 01:04:48,39 Ironman. In their. Provision but. You know and it may be that 722 01:04:48,40 --> 01:04:52,34 what we need is some things make more sense in other chapters and it's 723 01:04:52,35 --> 01:04:59,03 a question of how we introduce this to provide. Housing. Just don't 724 01:04:59,36 --> 01:05:04,05 necessarily. Specify just. 725 01:05:08,19 --> 01:05:13,37 Go ahead or just one last real quick one section three four one section C. 726 01:05:14,13 --> 01:05:21,12 It says up to five percent to generate power for building so up to five percent I 727 01:05:21,13 --> 01:05:23,45 was curious Should there be more of a minimum in 728 01:05:23,46 --> 01:05:30,09 a sense goes up to five percent to be like zero to five percent. And. I mean this 729 01:05:30,10 --> 01:05:30,66 is being 730 01:05:30,67 --> 01:05:38,36 a little picky but sorry question. I 731 01:05:38,37 --> 01:05:43,14 guess my only question on this is and probably open 732 01:05:43,15 --> 01:05:48,68 a can of worms but. Incentives you know are there incentives to do more than the 733 01:05:48,69 --> 01:05:53,67 minimum. So for example you know providing 734 01:05:53,68 --> 01:05:59,33 a lot if you look at three to four out to. Jay bullet Jay provide electric we have 735 01:05:59,34 --> 01:06:03,82 a priority parking charging stations to me that's you know almost 736 01:06:03,83 --> 01:06:10,08 a given going forward and that would be sort of the one sustainability innovation I 737 01:06:10,09 --> 01:06:15,39 don't consider an innovation anymore as much as an opportunity. And there's 738 01:06:15,50 --> 01:06:21,22 probably no incentive to do now no other you know incentives beyond what you know 739 01:06:21,52 --> 01:06:28,42 they want to do anyway. To do something more than that and so. I 740 01:06:28,43 --> 01:06:31,91 don't know what those incentives could be necessarily but it seems to me that you 741 01:06:31,92 --> 01:06:35,44 know building incentives into things like this or maybe even taking out those 742 01:06:35,45 --> 01:06:39,48 things that are becoming more standard and I'm not saying that it is standard yet 743 01:06:39,49 --> 01:06:44,26 but by twenty whatever it's called probably going to be standard. 744 01:06:46,66 --> 01:06:50,75 You know we might want to think about that. So one. 745 01:06:59,90 --> 01:07:05,69 Part of that I think is. Reflected very clearly but I think the idea is that in 746 01:07:05,70 --> 01:07:10,44 this is the inability of something become standard practice that it wouldn't 747 01:07:10,45 --> 01:07:14,26 necessarily remain as the idea is to give us 748 01:07:14,27 --> 01:07:21,21 a regular opportunity to update the list. No I know I was saying I don't 749 01:07:21,22 --> 01:07:25,02 think that's clear it's OK and it has been and so OK. 750 01:07:28,91 --> 01:07:30,14 So I think that's a that's 751 01:07:30,15 --> 01:07:36,47 a good piece to OK All right thank you Jeff. Yes sorry go ahead Mike I want to 752 01:07:36,48 --> 01:07:39,36 address some real quick and first of all I was I was 753 01:07:39,37 --> 01:07:42,01 a group of incentives I like that idea worked well and some of the other. 754 01:07:43,10 --> 01:07:46,58 Development agreements but they were asking for more I think so they might be 755 01:07:46,59 --> 01:07:53,26 difficult here. I think Swedish maybe we're not considering what 756 01:07:53,27 --> 01:07:57,66 Swedish as an organization we talk about extra social benefits to the community 757 01:07:57,67 --> 01:08:01,87 their hospital and their nonprofit hospital so they have to serve everyone 758 01:08:02,53 --> 01:08:06,70 regardless of their state or their ability to pay so I don't think there is 759 01:08:06,71 --> 01:08:10,45 a more beneficial social construct than 760 01:08:10,46 --> 01:08:14,24 a hospital in this community so I think I've met many of those I really respect the 761 01:08:14,48 --> 01:08:18,14 notion but I just want again to point that out because I think it's pretty valuable 762 01:08:19,74 --> 01:08:26,28 to start think in line with the. You know suggesting that you had to offer 763 01:08:26,29 --> 01:08:30,59 incentives I wonder if there's anything you know like the gondolas 764 01:08:30,60 --> 01:08:35,66 a pretty exciting prospect but I don't know if I would expect the Swedish to take 765 01:08:35,67 --> 01:08:40,52 that burden on and I wonder obviously I think I've done this in other development 766 01:08:40,53 --> 01:08:46,71 agreements is somehow you know you say incentive or some level of cooperation with 767 01:08:46,72 --> 01:08:52,99 the city. You know to to maybe help you know promote something like that because 768 01:08:53,00 --> 01:08:54,47 that would be not just 769 01:08:54,48 --> 01:08:59,58 a benefit to Swedish but benefit I think the entire community. To offer 770 01:08:59,59 --> 01:09:06,32 a hundred go from the floor to the hospital and also to that whole area you know. 771 01:09:07,64 --> 01:09:12,10 I think it would be nice to have some you know explored in some fashion of course 772 01:09:12,11 --> 01:09:15,71 that be outside of the purview of this agreement but I just want 773 01:09:15,72 --> 01:09:20,73 a voice that maybe we can get the city to suspend the trolley to go up and help 774 01:09:21,55 --> 01:09:27,82 with troops or you can do a combination trolley ride you know. You put on 775 01:09:27,83 --> 01:09:34,16 a voting you know vote for it all right anything else and sustainability Yes no you 776 01:09:34,17 --> 01:09:39,30 know. I think it's just. One. 777 01:09:41,02 --> 01:09:47,60 Part comes up in both the leadership innovation and technology innovation the last 778 01:09:47,61 --> 01:09:49,90 item on each of those at G.E. 779 01:09:50,31 --> 01:09:56,84 For leadership and care. For technology in the way that it's worded it says 780 01:09:57,55 --> 01:10:02,35 or an equivalent innovation as determined by the designated official. 781 01:10:05,58 --> 01:10:11,80 It is that. That the DOESN'T in official is right now it's you. 782 01:10:14,07 --> 01:10:19,01 It could be somebody else and it's the mayor Yeah and I was I was just seeing that 783 01:10:19,02 --> 01:10:22,89 as being there are so many there is a big spectrum there's 784 01:10:22,90 --> 01:10:26,47 a lot to choose from but you could just do anything as long as this one of the 785 01:10:26,48 --> 01:10:29,86 person who has the sole responsibility and I just wondered if there should be 786 01:10:29,87 --> 01:10:35,57 another kind of project chairman by and approved by if we've sat there and said 787 01:10:35,58 --> 01:10:41,26 that we say that the leadership innovation could be earned by items A through F. 788 01:10:41,81 --> 01:10:42,36 And we as 789 01:10:42,37 --> 01:10:50,72 a body of of officials to do that but then it could entirely be. Done 790 01:10:51,37 --> 01:10:53,61 by somebody other than you know as 791 01:10:53,62 --> 01:10:57,70 a designated official it just seems like there should be another check checks and 792 01:10:57,71 --> 01:11:04,55 balances on ongoing off the proposed plan. Not quite sure how to do that but I was 793 01:11:04,56 --> 01:11:10,67 just going to suggest some kind of language for the the last items because it just 794 01:11:10,68 --> 01:11:15,30 reduces the weight of the list by saying well the list means nothing because you 795 01:11:15,31 --> 01:11:19,59 could just do something else well outside of the say something else it's just 796 01:11:19,60 --> 01:11:22,88 something else to approve what I want yeah but that does it doesn't get official 797 01:11:22,89 --> 01:11:25,55 doesn't get the support it could put it this way of 798 01:11:25,59 --> 01:11:31,60 a body to say that this is the kind of thing that needs to be the alternative. 799 01:11:32,69 --> 01:11:36,74 Right well one thing I noticed is that there's not 800 01:11:36,75 --> 01:11:43,60 a modifier and them sections to this which I think they're probably should be and. 801 01:11:45,04 --> 01:11:50,82 You know maybe identifying what those criteria are that something because every 802 01:11:50,83 --> 01:11:56,31 chapter can be modified and there are only certain things that the designated 803 01:11:56,32 --> 01:12:03,06 official can't modify so and I think the choices are either 804 01:12:03,25 --> 01:12:10,00 this is elevated that. I 805 01:12:10,01 --> 01:12:16,79 mean any designated official worth her salt is willing to talk to 806 01:12:16,80 --> 01:12:23,42 a lot of other people. And I just the term of this agreement though it 807 01:12:24,33 --> 01:12:27,93 might go out beyond your willingness to work for the city of is 808 01:12:27,94 --> 01:12:33,44 a quasi I'm just looking out for that you can point to that for that day for your 809 01:12:33,45 --> 01:12:38,75 consideration Yeah OK And then the other thing I want to bring up was. Kind of kind 810 01:12:38,76 --> 01:12:43,74 of thread throughout One is that under three point four point one it says that it's 811 01:12:43,75 --> 01:12:48,96 an energy efficiency performance and all the development of law but then when we 812 01:12:48,97 --> 01:12:55,77 talk about performance we say for instance under technology innovation the 813 01:12:55,78 --> 01:13:01,31 letter after purchase green power for two years and that I have another complaint 814 01:13:01,32 --> 01:13:07,13 about that one but performance. And then the other one these these aren't so 815 01:13:07,14 --> 01:13:13,23 performance they're just incident based and the last point of this being item four 816 01:13:13,24 --> 01:13:14,41 point two The schedule 817 01:13:14,71 --> 01:13:19,28 a sustainability review will occur within one year but it doesn't say it'll never 818 01:13:19,29 --> 01:13:24,39 happen again. I think it's one year of 819 01:13:24,40 --> 01:13:31,06 a building. So then what happens after that and so what I'm thinking 820 01:13:31,07 --> 01:13:36,21 about is not something that we've ever done before but the progression of 821 01:13:36,22 --> 01:13:41,09 sustainability movement is to something that performs rather than is built. 822 01:13:43,48 --> 01:13:47,02 Not quite sure how to how do it how to approach it but I'm looking at something 823 01:13:47,03 --> 01:13:47,55 that just has 824 01:13:47,56 --> 01:13:52,63 a more future so I can tell you the city does not want to be monitoring their 825 01:13:52,64 --> 01:13:57,53 performance I know Mesa's I mean that's just that's not something we're willing to 826 01:13:57,54 --> 01:14:02,90 take on and I don't think it's something we should be willing to undergo wall so 827 01:14:03,15 --> 01:14:08,69 that said what about the incentive side of it something I don't have an answer to 828 01:14:08,70 --> 01:14:15,31 and I'm sure in her early incentives because they save money. I mean you know 829 01:14:15,79 --> 01:14:21,08 so I think we have to think about what our goals are and you know so part of it is 830 01:14:21,46 --> 01:14:27,05 to encourage. Getting out in front of 831 01:14:27,06 --> 01:14:33,22 a trend and so part of the goal of these we started with rallies completely 832 01:14:33,23 --> 01:14:38,11 different sustainability structure but part of what we started with the rallies was 833 01:14:38,11 --> 01:14:41,13 . These reviews as 834 01:14:41,14 --> 01:14:47,86 a way of documenting the efforts that were made not only so 835 01:14:47,87 --> 01:14:53,63 that you know we all had an opportunity to understand what had been done but to 836 01:14:53,64 --> 01:14:57,82 make information available to other entities about what had been done as 837 01:14:57,83 --> 01:15:03,56 a way of encouraging it in the same way that idea House did it is quite high lands 838 01:15:03,96 --> 01:15:10,70 and so it's not to monitor their long 839 01:15:10,71 --> 01:15:15,81 term performance but try and encourage taking 840 01:15:15,82 --> 01:15:18,57 a more leadership role rather than 841 01:15:18,61 --> 01:15:24,87 a follower role now that said I can't tell you the number of times that Swedish has 842 01:15:24,88 --> 01:15:31,64 reminded us and so I will say that you they are nonprofit and so that they have 843 01:15:31,65 --> 01:15:38,30 to be able to demonstrate that making one of these choices is going to reflect 844 01:15:38,34 --> 01:15:45,22 positively in their bottom line because. Their profit margin is not 845 01:15:45,23 --> 01:15:45,89 such as 846 01:15:45,90 --> 01:15:52,90 a nonprofit that they can. Do something just for show and so it's 847 01:15:52,91 --> 01:15:55,59 trying to strike a balance between taking 848 01:15:55,60 --> 01:16:02,12 a leadership role and doing things that financially makes sense 849 01:16:03,87 --> 01:16:08,29 yeah and for that I do appreciate the language that has that 850 01:16:10,81 --> 01:16:16,01 a level similar to lead silver equivalency and not making 851 01:16:16,02 --> 01:16:19,54 a requirement on certification because that's 852 01:16:19,55 --> 01:16:24,45 a diversion of resources that Swedish identified they did not want to do in the 853 01:16:24,46 --> 01:16:28,48 first one right and I understand the idea there is that they could choose to 854 01:16:28,49 --> 01:16:33,50 certify but they are required to Alex did you want to add something. 855 01:16:43,83 --> 01:16:49,91 You come to the microphone Thank you. Just emphasizing the point that this is all 856 01:16:49,92 --> 01:16:55,50 of our health care dollars right and so how we spend the money on sustainability 857 01:16:55,51 --> 01:17:00,34 both of the programs that we can provide to the community so really responsible 858 01:17:00,35 --> 01:17:05,27 with our health care dollars is really with that said we also are interested in 859 01:17:05,44 --> 01:17:09,33 continuing what we we've done with the first project you know as 860 01:17:09,34 --> 01:17:15,91 a showed you guys few weeks ago we have demonstrated real. Energy 861 01:17:16,35 --> 01:17:20,06 conservation we do believe probably when I was in chief is it possible as 862 01:17:20,07 --> 01:17:25,10 a country and we want to continue that. Thank you. 863 01:17:27,45 --> 01:17:34,06 OK Anything else on sustainability at this point. I think you know I think you know 864 01:17:34,07 --> 01:17:40,99 see in commission. So just. What's the latest on the say what's the timing and 865 01:17:43,43 --> 01:17:47,90 I think that if I was out last week. I think we may have gotten 866 01:17:47,91 --> 01:17:54,74 a draft yesterday OK and you'll 867 01:17:54,76 --> 01:18:01,12 summarize that for us. Go into our what we've what we've done in past development 868 01:18:01,13 --> 01:18:06,55 agreements is. We have taken. Not the 869 01:18:07,31 --> 01:18:14,26 checklist but conditions that come out of the secret checklist and have 870 01:18:14,34 --> 01:18:15,86 put those into 871 01:18:15,90 --> 01:18:22,85 a chapter to clarify what conditions. Apply to the project and 872 01:18:22,86 --> 01:18:29,54 what the timing of those are. That's OK I'll just remind the why don't we leave it 873 01:18:29,55 --> 01:18:34,32 there for one more minute I was going to pass but. If any of the public would like 874 01:18:34,33 --> 01:18:39,13 to testify please feel free to sign up on the sheet that we keep trying to grab. 875 01:18:45,43 --> 01:18:51,80 Sorry I didn't mean it was OK and highly distractible. So. 876 01:18:54,82 --> 01:19:01,37 What that chapter would represent you know is. What we need to know about 877 01:19:02,02 --> 01:19:07,97 to implement the development agreement and you know as this is an extension of the 878 01:19:08,55 --> 01:19:14,59 existing Highlands development agreement I'm not sure exactly what will end up in 879 01:19:16,93 --> 01:19:21,87 OK so. Nice job getting through all these appendices where we do it in three 880 01:19:21,88 --> 01:19:26,14 meetings I guess to three meetings so the next meeting that we have which will be 881 01:19:26,15 --> 01:19:28,57 two weeks from now yes we will get 882 01:19:28,58 --> 01:19:30,84 a new draft of this or actually prior to the main will get 883 01:19:30,85 --> 01:19:35,20 a new draft of it so please look through all the red lines to the extent that you 884 01:19:35,21 --> 01:19:39,08 can so we can come here prepared to talk about those changes and see where else we 885 01:19:39,09 --> 01:19:45,01 want to go with it so meantime I like to go ahead and open up the public comment 886 01:19:45,28 --> 01:19:46,74 portion of the hearing or 887 01:19:46,75 --> 01:19:50,67 a public hearing portion of the meeting and say there's anybody who would like to 888 01:19:50,68 --> 01:19:56,71 speak I don't think we have anybody on the left right. Well. 889 01:20:00,49 --> 01:20:05,92 We do open mike. Perhaps but in words to put it in. 890 01:20:07,44 --> 01:20:14,07 OK Well then. So then I guess I will close 891 01:20:14,64 --> 01:20:21,39 the public comment or maybe. I won't cry like everything. 892 01:20:22,46 --> 01:20:29,28 OK Well there you go. All right we have we have done very well so far you get 893 01:20:29,29 --> 01:20:34,32 him for open discussion anybody want to talk about anything relevant and germane. 894 01:20:35,52 --> 01:20:39,52 Unlike my well the interpretive dance was about to come out there. 895 01:20:42,46 --> 01:20:49,18 OK and then bring it up thank you Jeff. Another outstanding question or maybe I 896 01:20:49,19 --> 01:20:56,01 would just wasn't here but it popped up again in the letter of record from counsel 897 01:20:56,02 --> 01:20:59,07 for Swedish in response to this as 898 01:20:59,08 --> 01:21:03,76 a quiet environment Council letter so he read it read this but there's this one 899 01:21:03,77 --> 01:21:07,72 part of it that I'd like to know more about and like I said if I've missed 900 01:21:07,73 --> 01:21:12,55 something just give me some cliff notes there comment yes. 901 01:21:14,44 --> 01:21:15,07 There is 902 01:21:15,80 --> 01:21:21,19 a comment this is written by counsel for Swedish and Michael Robinson in the letter 903 01:21:21,21 --> 01:21:27,37 dated I wasn't sure September thirteenth to the yes no no Swedish letter were the 904 01:21:27,39 --> 01:21:31,40 development Grima not to be adopted Swedish would be at risk of closing on the 905 01:21:31,41 --> 01:21:35,43 property without knowing what entitlement regulations would affect the property and 906 01:21:35,44 --> 01:21:39,55 how those entitlement regs if regulations would be implemented and it was 907 01:21:39,57 --> 01:21:43,83 a question that Jeff brought up a few meetings back well what if we don't do 908 01:21:43,85 --> 01:21:50,81 a development agreement and not only is that. A question for this party but for 909 01:21:50,82 --> 01:21:57,46 any of the other properties and has acquired. Where do we go with that and 910 01:21:58,23 --> 01:22:01,75 how does this leave us when we think about the Marriott property or we think about 911 01:22:01,76 --> 01:22:07,25 Microsoft property that's so. I think we have. 912 01:22:12,62 --> 01:22:18,57 So the properties that are developed in by I think it's September twenty seventh 913 01:22:18,58 --> 01:22:24,15 team is when the development agreement and. They'll be kind of in 914 01:22:24,16 --> 01:22:31,09 a different boat than properties that are already developed. Those 915 01:22:31,10 --> 01:22:37,62 have uses an entitlement and certain kind of nature and the city will have to 916 01:22:37,63 --> 01:22:43,34 decide what kind of regulations they choose to use on those things that have 917 01:22:43,35 --> 01:22:49,78 already been built. For any properties that haven't been built 918 01:22:50,33 --> 01:22:55,84 that is is an open question and I think that's I think what Swedish is trying to 919 01:22:55,85 --> 01:23:02,66 identify is that they wanted more certainty and. An unknown process. 920 01:23:05,54 --> 01:23:10,57 Saying that though you know we've already begun talking with port Blakely about 921 01:23:10,58 --> 01:23:17,18 what our choices are. You know there's certain avenues we're pursuing I'm going to 922 01:23:17,19 --> 01:23:24,05 go do some training next year to see if one of those avenues is worth. Using in the 923 01:23:24,06 --> 01:23:25,69 future so it's not 924 01:23:25,70 --> 01:23:29,30 a question that we're waiting to twenty seven thousand to begin answering we just 925 01:23:29,31 --> 01:23:35,93 haven't really decided which way to go yet so it's it's 926 01:23:36,43 --> 01:23:41,46 I think we're in the not dissimilar position from the question that you're asking 927 01:23:41,70 --> 01:23:47,06 what do we do with that when the develop when we reach the buildup we just don't 928 01:23:47,07 --> 01:23:51,84 have an answer yet and what might be even more interesting or scary would be 929 01:23:51,94 --> 01:23:53,11 someone who's in the middle of 930 01:23:53,12 --> 01:23:59,40 a project right there could be vested could be but who knows what stage it be at 931 01:23:59,41 --> 01:24:04,59 right maybe they well I think purging land but they haven't you know program or 932 01:24:04,83 --> 01:24:09,35 whatever I mean could be any You're not vested by purchasing property necessarily I 933 01:24:09,36 --> 01:24:13,96 mean usually that process you get if you happen not even necessarily through land 934 01:24:13,97 --> 01:24:20,36 use I mean and those are all legal questions that would you know let me and let me 935 01:24:20,37 --> 01:24:27,25 add for discussion sake. For instance that is built but 936 01:24:27,26 --> 01:24:30,95 it's not built to it's full entitlement so if 937 01:24:30,96 --> 01:24:35,52 a party is asking that they don't know what the entitlement regulations with those 938 01:24:35,53 --> 01:24:40,39 two words are together I don't know if I quite understand that in that in twenty 939 01:24:40,40 --> 01:24:44,53 seventeen could even ground bridge Plaza be facing 940 01:24:44,63 --> 01:24:50,45 a redevelopment What is the redevelopment definition for a property in 941 01:24:50,46 --> 01:24:55,42 a urban village zone that has an expired development agreement. 942 01:24:57,100 --> 01:25:03,98 So. There are many questions there one is. 943 01:25:06,39 --> 01:25:10,53 And where we're working with publicly now I'm clarifying for each of the nine 944 01:25:10,54 --> 01:25:17,33 residential properties exactly how much entitlement they have and 945 01:25:17,34 --> 01:25:23,43 whether they have retained any excess entitlement because the way some contracts 946 01:25:23,44 --> 01:25:27,76 are written is once you finish building you're building in their words. 947 01:25:30,31 --> 01:25:31,10 So if you have 948 01:25:31,12 --> 01:25:37,29 a hundred thousand and you build ninety eight if you the two thousand would revert 949 01:25:37,33 --> 01:25:41,03 now everything there are lots of different contracts and and that's why we're 950 01:25:41,04 --> 01:25:47,55 trying to get clarity. With them. Subsequent to the. 951 01:25:49,91 --> 01:25:56,49 Development agreement expiring you know. We don't know exactly mean 952 01:25:56,53 --> 01:26:00,57 I don't know I just don't have an answer for you exactly what would happen. 953 01:26:04,25 --> 01:26:09,15 I mean I could hypothesize on lots of different alternatives but I don't think. 954 01:26:10,19 --> 01:26:15,67 That would be wise because I don't know which way we're going to go and. You know I 955 01:26:15,68 --> 01:26:19,71 think as we get towards the end of the development agreement if there are 956 01:26:19,72 --> 01:26:25,83 properties such as Mary or black one thousand which is the one over by the pond 957 01:26:25,84 --> 01:26:32,74 across the across falls drive from. If those hadn't developed you know 958 01:26:32,75 --> 01:26:37,54 we would definitely be wanting to talk to that property owner to try and clarify 959 01:26:37,73 --> 01:26:40,82 you know what they want and how to move forward. 960 01:26:45,69 --> 01:26:52,19 So if I could now so I mean I guess this to me is is. 961 01:26:53,58 --> 01:27:00,28 Outside of this particular development agreement in the sense that. Those that are 962 01:27:00,29 --> 01:27:07,22 uncertain that uncertainty is exactly what Swedish is. Is 963 01:27:07,26 --> 01:27:13,13 unappealing to Swedish and which led them to this process so that they had in 964 01:27:13,14 --> 01:27:19,24 purchasing property there was clarity and predictability for both the city and the 965 01:27:19,25 --> 01:27:23,73 property owner as well as Port Blakely and handing something off and to the 966 01:27:23,74 --> 01:27:30,35 community. About what the options were unlikely to happen and and that may 967 01:27:30,36 --> 01:27:31,47 be you know for 968 01:27:31,48 --> 01:27:37,71 a big piece of property like Microsoft if someone wasn't going to build that out in 969 01:27:38,02 --> 01:27:39,43 time frame that might be 970 01:27:39,44 --> 01:27:44,25 a great solution as well you know it's just hard to say not knowing what's going to 971 01:27:44,26 --> 01:27:50,77 happen. Which brings me to the question of the duration of this particular 972 01:27:50,78 --> 01:27:56,16 development agreement that been wondering about the latest letter that you're 973 01:27:56,17 --> 01:27:57,58 referring to refers to 974 01:27:57,59 --> 01:28:03,91 a twenty thirty three twenty thirty three date seems to be changing thirty years 975 01:28:04,48 --> 01:28:10,17 from. Originally when an extension of ten years beyond the 976 01:28:10,90 --> 01:28:15,46 expiration of the following salarymen. Which would have given them 977 01:28:15,50 --> 01:28:22,34 a total of I think fourteen years and what they've asked for is twenty years 978 01:28:22,41 --> 01:28:27,08 from the signing of the development team and so that is maybe 979 01:28:27,09 --> 01:28:31,80 a five or six year extension beyond the draft you originally saw. 980 01:28:34,94 --> 01:28:41,73 But not like another decade or something. So I'm not sure how I feel about 981 01:28:41,74 --> 01:28:43,06 that I don't know that I have 982 01:28:43,10 --> 01:28:46,13 a feeling one way or the other I just want to bring that up because I find it 983 01:28:46,14 --> 01:28:49,16 interesting that it's been extended further there was 984 01:28:49,17 --> 01:28:55,83 a request for extension and. You have drafted I mean I think the city is 985 01:28:55,84 --> 01:29:02,56 entertainment and if you had thought you'd like to hear them. I just 986 01:29:02,69 --> 01:29:07,14 I just read it when I got that letter today so I haven't had time to process it I 987 01:29:07,15 --> 01:29:11,25 just wanted to bring it up to whatever questions we might have going forward we can 988 01:29:11,30 --> 01:29:18,29 incorporate that thinking into it. You know. If 989 01:29:18,30 --> 01:29:22,94 someone could remind me what's the deadline for them to create those beds that they 990 01:29:22,95 --> 01:29:29,86 have. The Fed to twenty four to the deadline to create those additional 991 01:29:29,87 --> 01:29:36,63 beds so we have to have. You know we had to license another forty beds by October 992 01:29:36,64 --> 01:29:40,51 of next year now gets up to one twenty and then we have to license the remaining 993 01:29:40,59 --> 01:29:44,33 fifty five up to one seventy five by October two thousand eight hundred eighteen. 994 01:29:45,35 --> 01:29:51,90 Thank you. OK which I'll just go on record saying I think that that's really 995 01:29:51,91 --> 01:29:57,70 important that we can get to that point if this if this goes through I just I'm not 996 01:29:57,71 --> 01:29:59,83 sure I'd like to learn I'd like to understand 997 01:29:59,84 --> 01:30:05,36 a little bit better. You know why twenty years and not fourteen and maybe some 998 01:30:05,37 --> 01:30:10,47 certainty in the marketplace or whatever but it doesn't seem like it I mean we've 999 01:30:10,48 --> 01:30:10,62 got 1000 01:30:10,62 --> 01:30:15,98 a lot of other piece of land in the Highlands that that haven't been concerned with 1001 01:30:15,100 --> 01:30:21,67 the twenty seventeen day to begin with that another twenty years you know I don't 1002 01:30:21,68 --> 01:30:25,47 know if that's excessive or not there was a rationale given for the request 1003 01:30:25,48 --> 01:30:32,45 a million Kurds. A lot Alex speak to that so when we 1004 01:30:32,45 --> 01:30:39,28 were looking at this and thinking about what we'd build how much and when it seemed 1005 01:30:39,29 --> 01:30:43,19 less and less likely they were going to build five hundred thirty nine thousand 1006 01:30:43,20 --> 01:30:47,01 square feet that's. You know 1007 01:30:47,27 --> 01:30:52,50 a new building every three about three years and I just don't think we're going to 1008 01:30:52,51 --> 01:30:58,09 grow at that pace so you know we have real reservations about growing and building 1009 01:30:58,10 --> 01:31:01,19 buildings it's a vacant so we were felt we person felt 1010 01:31:01,20 --> 01:31:04,82 a lot more comfortable twenty years we feel like that probably more realistic 1011 01:31:04,83 --> 01:31:10,13 target to build out the five hundred thousands development OK Thank you. 1012 01:31:12,09 --> 01:31:16,96 So that takes me to sort of back to what Stephanie said earlier to some degree 1013 01:31:17,25 --> 01:31:21,84 about adjacent properties I'd be really curious to know where we end up with you 1014 01:31:21,85 --> 01:31:25,35 know what's happening with the Microsoft property you know twenty seventeen is 1015 01:31:25,36 --> 01:31:31,30 coming up coming upon them as well. So if 1016 01:31:31,30 --> 01:31:34,32 a new development agreement has to be written for that or an extension has to be 1017 01:31:34,33 --> 01:31:39,41 created you know I don't really like to see some compatibility or some consistency 1018 01:31:39,42 --> 01:31:44,37 across whatever these are sort of you know if someone from Microsoft that came and 1019 01:31:44,37 --> 01:31:48,73 said no we really intend to build here but we need thirty more years to do it you 1020 01:31:48,75 --> 01:31:51,83 know I think we need to start asking this question I know that's not Swedish is 1021 01:31:51,84 --> 01:31:58,24 problem per se but I think we need to really think about that. So 1022 01:31:58,80 --> 01:32:02,53 just so you know the process. At the end of 1023 01:32:02,54 --> 01:32:09,41 a build out period. The development agreement I think this is true for all of them 1024 01:32:09,42 --> 01:32:15,53 I know it's true for its crocodile and it doesn't automatically. Either the master 1025 01:32:15,54 --> 01:32:20,06 developer or. The city can ask for it. 1026 01:32:23,46 --> 01:32:30,30 The city would be likely to ask to terminate was. Probably 1027 01:32:30,31 --> 01:32:36,10 primarily the storm waters have changed significantly over the twenty years it's 1028 01:32:36,11 --> 01:32:36,27 been 1029 01:32:36,28 --> 01:32:43,62 a really important piece for the city. To. Update 1030 01:32:43,62 --> 01:32:45,16 those particular standards. 1031 01:32:50,97 --> 01:32:57,11 And so if there was a request to for instance continue for 1032 01:32:57,51 --> 01:33:01,85 a long period of time. It would either be 1033 01:33:01,86 --> 01:33:07,40 a major modification that would go to the council or nother development stream and 1034 01:33:07,52 --> 01:33:14,30 that. Act of commission so. You know we would just 1035 01:33:15,11 --> 01:33:19,60 we we don't know what's going to happen those are you probably identified I mean 1036 01:33:19,61 --> 01:33:26,44 other than this property Microsoft Block nineteen which is residential 1037 01:33:26,48 --> 01:33:32,00 and Mary which is like twenty Those are I think the only substantial pieces left 1038 01:33:32,01 --> 01:33:38,68 their single family lives in the Harrison neighborhood. But close I mean 1039 01:33:38,92 --> 01:33:43,05 we would need to stablish you know basic setbacks and things like that but it 1040 01:33:43,77 --> 01:33:49,34 because it's already been applied there is really very little regulation yes Kerry 1041 01:33:49,39 --> 01:33:55,59 to address that it's really these bigger pieces of property. All right food for 1042 01:33:55,60 --> 01:34:01,05 thought I think you mean yes. Thank you Jeff for bringing up the U. 1043 01:34:01,06 --> 01:34:06,65 Term of the agreement and it goes back to something we were talking about earlier 1044 01:34:06,66 --> 01:34:11,16 it's great to be negotiating with an organization like Swedish because of what 1045 01:34:11,17 --> 01:34:17,73 they're offering and I understand this agreement is between the city and Swedish 1046 01:34:18,01 --> 01:34:22,04 and there are development Greenman go with the land though and if I'm understanding 1047 01:34:22,05 --> 01:34:26,23 the language correctly that is Swedish sold any of the property that the 1048 01:34:26,24 --> 01:34:32,07 development agreement would still apply Yes right OK And so we're and we're looking 1049 01:34:32,08 --> 01:34:36,50 at an expectation of some diversification within this property part of it will be 1050 01:34:36,51 --> 01:34:40,24 hospital part of it will be other things and so when we're talking about the thirty 1051 01:34:41,17 --> 01:34:45,64 eight twenty year term and the know and you know you have 1052 01:34:45,65 --> 01:34:48,88 a lot of trust and faith when you're dealing with Swedish but we do want to 1053 01:34:48,89 --> 01:34:53,74 scrutinize an agreement that's going to be in effect with whoever the party is who 1054 01:34:53,75 --> 01:35:00,46 may on that property and gosh I'm sorry when. 1055 01:35:02,30 --> 01:35:04,67 Oh to Jeff's going back it was such 1056 01:35:04,68 --> 01:35:09,94 a good question Jeff I'm just what what happens if we don't accept the development 1057 01:35:09,95 --> 01:35:14,73 agreement and the only answer we get is Well I don't know and it's the I don't know 1058 01:35:14,87 --> 01:35:20,85 is why we have to get it have a development agreement and we've lit a fire under 1059 01:35:21,09 --> 01:35:22,77 a process to create 1060 01:35:22,78 --> 01:35:27,66 a development agreement but the same sense of urgency isn't matched by providing an 1061 01:35:27,67 --> 01:35:33,52 alternative there is no alternative apparently. It's an awkward position to be in 1062 01:35:34,16 --> 01:35:39,73 and so I just come back to that that seems so on satisfying to say well if you 1063 01:35:39,74 --> 01:35:43,82 don't accept this development agreement Well gee then I just don't know well right 1064 01:35:43,83 --> 01:35:48,32 and we're having this conversation because Swedish has requested this but we could 1065 01:35:48,33 --> 01:35:53,77 very well be having the same conversation if Microsoft came to us right and that 1066 01:35:53,78 --> 01:35:59,27 the same situation is upon us. The difference is we don't have 1067 01:35:59,28 --> 01:36:02,57 a development game to talk about with that one so I'm I'm actually probably more 1068 01:36:02,58 --> 01:36:05,58 concerned about what happens with that piece of land as I've been for 1069 01:36:05,59 --> 01:36:10,88 a long time because we never we someone never had the foresight I started before I 1070 01:36:10,89 --> 01:36:14,68 ever got involved but even I never had the foresight to say well what if they don't 1071 01:36:14,69 --> 01:36:15,81 build in 1072 01:36:15,82 --> 01:36:19,99 a period of time what if that land just their vacant nobody nobody thought I was 1073 01:36:20,90 --> 01:36:25,99 sound guys going home. I don't think anybody thought something wouldn't be built 1074 01:36:26,00 --> 01:36:31,83 there and and then if they decide to sell that land to somebody else you know who 1075 01:36:31,84 --> 01:36:32,72 knows we could be starting 1076 01:36:32,73 --> 01:36:35,65 a whole new process that's completely different than the one we're talking about 1077 01:36:35,66 --> 01:36:40,15 right now so I it's I think that's my bigger concern I'd hate to see this community 1078 01:36:40,53 --> 01:36:44,23 go from all of this great work that we've done to make it all consistent work all 1079 01:36:44,28 --> 01:36:48,47 well together and then I was sudden end up at the sort of at the eleventh hour with 1080 01:36:48,78 --> 01:36:55,44 two or three different you know sort of. Snap on agreements that satisfy just to 1081 01:36:55,54 --> 01:37:00,41 let the landowners in that case not since the bad situation in this area it's what 1082 01:37:00,42 --> 01:37:04,67 we're going through this again I'm just saying beyond this one and the other two or 1083 01:37:04,68 --> 01:37:09,25 three piece of land that are left I just concern about the uncertainty around them 1084 01:37:09,95 --> 01:37:14,02 but I think I think Swedish is concerned about the uncertainty around this and 1085 01:37:14,03 --> 01:37:20,38 that's why they've asked you this and I think. You know we're sort of seeing the 1086 01:37:20,39 --> 01:37:25,80 impact of the recession. Because there are you know to 1087 01:37:25,81 --> 01:37:30,21 a certain extent the time frame for the development agreement probably was 1088 01:37:30,22 --> 01:37:36,56 reasonable if you didn't attract six years out of it. And 1089 01:37:37,30 --> 01:37:42,66 building it started back then and it didn't and so now we're trying to figure out 1090 01:37:42,67 --> 01:37:48,50 how to provide predictability for property owners that. 1091 01:37:50,18 --> 01:37:50,64 I think as 1092 01:37:50,65 --> 01:38:00,80 a community want to have here and. I'm 1093 01:38:00,81 --> 01:38:07,66 not. I think that they are made there may be larger discussions 1094 01:38:07,67 --> 01:38:10,23 that happen with. Is 1095 01:38:10,24 --> 01:38:15,12 a quote Highlands as properties that might remain within its quite high lands that 1096 01:38:15,13 --> 01:38:20,90 are undeveloped and you know run out various areas terms. 1097 01:38:22,82 --> 01:38:27,57 Zoning or tools that could be used to handle that property going forward. 1098 01:38:30,33 --> 01:38:35,06 But that's probably almost more likely for someone where we don't necessarily know 1099 01:38:35,07 --> 01:38:36,92 what's going to happen this is 1100 01:38:36,93 --> 01:38:43,90 a particular property owner asking for. A level of predictability to 1101 01:38:43,91 --> 01:38:45,09 you before they make 1102 01:38:45,10 --> 01:38:51,86 a certain level of investment and. I think you can imagine with some of the 1103 01:38:51,87 --> 01:38:57,91 alternatives might be yeah and I am yeah I do I do understand the motivation and 1104 01:38:58,15 --> 01:38:59,97 yeah it's totally reasonable but that's 1105 01:38:59,98 --> 01:39:04,13 a decision maker that's where it's unsatisfying if you either it's 1106 01:39:04,14 --> 01:39:09,54 a it's an ultimatum either you pick this development agreement or oh my gosh I 1107 01:39:09,55 --> 01:39:13,78 don't know could be any number of horrible things I mean it just doesn't give us 1108 01:39:13,79 --> 01:39:20,36 a very good choice at all to help me. And good Tim I guess 1109 01:39:20,73 --> 01:39:24,95 what I'm hearing is that we have a process that we've been going through we've got 1110 01:39:24,96 --> 01:39:31,80 a core here we've made some recommendations minor changes I don't think that 1111 01:39:31,81 --> 01:39:36,07 we've basically changed much from what the core was one of the things that I don't 1112 01:39:36,08 --> 01:39:40,15 think I've heard much of is I'm assuming that this development agreement I was as 1113 01:39:40,16 --> 01:39:45,53 it was submitted was something that Swedish was on board with and I'm also assuming 1114 01:39:45,54 --> 01:39:49,60 that they haven't heard anything through the sessions that they would say oh that's 1115 01:39:49,61 --> 01:39:52,85 the final straw we're not going to go through with this we don't like that 1116 01:39:52,86 --> 01:39:58,99 agreement there seems to be kind of international ability if you will of you know 1117 01:39:58,100 --> 01:40:05,86 we are we are headed to approving this agreement and if we don't. I'm not sure 1118 01:40:05,87 --> 01:40:10,13 what's supposed to happen on December thirty first as far as Swedish is concerned 1119 01:40:10,18 --> 01:40:13,84 they want to close on the project and they wouldn't if they didn't have some 1120 01:40:13,85 --> 01:40:20,80 certainty is brought up by the US so I don't want to say it's inevitable but 1121 01:40:20,81 --> 01:40:25,07 it sounds like we've we've we've got something here that's not a it's not 1122 01:40:25,08 --> 01:40:29,80 a far stretch from things that have been done before and that it looks like 1123 01:40:30,15 --> 01:40:34,81 something that's doable and again I haven't heard any feedback from Swedish to say 1124 01:40:34,82 --> 01:40:38,05 that they don't like any of the discussions that we've had about these little 1125 01:40:38,07 --> 01:40:42,44 change that we've been making so I would hope that you know we all feel pretty 1126 01:40:42,45 --> 01:40:47,57 comfortable that even though we don't have an alternative there are some things 1127 01:40:47,58 --> 01:40:51,66 that you can look and say maybe we don't need an alternative this isn't such 1128 01:40:51,67 --> 01:40:58,01 a big stretch that we have to say. You know we we just don't understand what's in 1129 01:40:58,02 --> 01:41:03,30 here and we have to just back off on this whole thing of her on the back burner so 1130 01:41:03,31 --> 01:41:07,15 that the point that you're bringing up to him which I think me is 1131 01:41:07,16 --> 01:41:12,09 a really helpful one is I think. 1132 01:41:14,12 --> 01:41:14,64 It isn't 1133 01:41:14,65 --> 01:41:19,59 a binary decision that we're asking or recommendation that we're asking the commission 1134 01:41:19,60 --> 01:41:26,38 to make it's not this it's either this development agreement or nothing. Because 1135 01:41:26,90 --> 01:41:30,40 we are having that discussion we're building a partnership we're building 1136 01:41:30,41 --> 01:41:35,12 a set of tools that we think will create something that's worth having in the city 1137 01:41:35,54 --> 01:41:40,42 and so. If we said the draft that we brought you 1138 01:41:41,08 --> 01:41:45,95 a month ago it's either that or nothing then I would understand what you're saying 1139 01:41:46,69 --> 01:41:52,56 I think the important piece is that we are talking about lots of alternatives all 1140 01:41:52,57 --> 01:41:58,51 through this document that are reflecting what kinds of tools and understanding of 1141 01:41:58,52 --> 01:42:03,82 each other we need. To feel comfortable moving forward together. 1142 01:42:05,26 --> 01:42:12,23 And. Yes sweet we've been meeting with Swedish A lot. And that's why it's important 1143 01:42:12,24 --> 01:42:15,76 to give them an opportunity to speak here so that you have an opportunity to hear 1144 01:42:15,77 --> 01:42:19,30 from them but we are you know sometimes spending 1145 01:42:19,51 --> 01:42:22,54 a long time on one page talking about 1146 01:42:22,55 --> 01:42:29,04 a few words and. You know that I think is the important piece 1147 01:42:29,38 --> 01:42:35,07 of what happens and I and I know it's been really important for the commission is 1148 01:42:35,16 --> 01:42:36,68 building that partnership and having 1149 01:42:36,69 --> 01:42:40,55 a sense of who that partner is that you're entering into this agreement with 1150 01:42:41,35 --> 01:42:42,50 because it is for 1151 01:42:42,51 --> 01:42:48,23 a number of years and does it feel like someone dad is ready to roll up their 1152 01:42:48,24 --> 01:42:53,80 sleeves and work together to crap something both as a document and as 1153 01:42:53,86 --> 01:43:00,35 a neighborhood built structure that isn't just theirs but is that you know the 1154 01:43:00,36 --> 01:43:02,52 cities and the residents if I can make 1155 01:43:02,53 --> 01:43:06,25 a comment one of the sort of echoing Thames point we've been through two recent 1156 01:43:06,26 --> 01:43:12,37 development agreement drafts to to recommendation if we put metrics against them 1157 01:43:12,38 --> 01:43:15,97 we're much farther apart and we started on both of them sleeping form this one 1158 01:43:15,98 --> 01:43:19,48 based on everything we learned it's not drastically different and I think we 1159 01:43:19,49 --> 01:43:21,78 discussed during one of those if a development Green was in 1160 01:43:21,79 --> 01:43:23,27 a place and they deployed just go through 1161 01:43:23,28 --> 01:43:26,31 a standard permitting process for each building so actually 1162 01:43:26,32 --> 01:43:28,63 a small turn to built into this right if we don't have 1163 01:43:28,64 --> 01:43:34,92 a development agreement. Yes The question is that standard 1164 01:43:34,93 --> 01:43:41,74 process is understood today three twenty seventeen it's 1165 01:43:41,75 --> 01:43:47,20 not. There we're not sure exactly what happens when the development agreement comes 1166 01:43:47,21 --> 01:43:51,94 to an end but places that that's because they're under development agreement now 1167 01:43:52,03 --> 01:43:56,40 we're extending But the other the rally in Lakeside didn't have 1168 01:43:56,41 --> 01:44:01,50 a. Right first this thing development agreements we said Wolf we don't have 1169 01:44:01,51 --> 01:44:06,37 a deal then they'll just move the standard permitting process right so or you know 1170 01:44:06,38 --> 01:44:09,92 for instance they could have just done their two to one slope with standard 1171 01:44:09,93 --> 01:44:16,40 recommendation plan. Not any development left but with there's nothing we're right 1172 01:44:16,46 --> 01:44:20,92 but I think it's an excellent point Carl and and Tim Your point is well to buy and 1173 01:44:20,93 --> 01:44:24,39 talk let me speak clear I'm not I'm not personally concerned with the idea of 1174 01:44:24,40 --> 01:44:30,10 a developing agreement I'm more concerned about the bigger picture I think you 1175 01:44:30,11 --> 01:44:30,45 brought 1176 01:44:30,77 --> 01:44:37,12 a great point nine about redevelopment what happens if you know if Regency center 1177 01:44:38,07 --> 01:44:44,09 wants to redevelop that area what does that look like and I'm very concerned about 1178 01:44:44,10 --> 01:44:48,59 the Microsoft land what's going to happen with that is so because it's not about to 1179 01:44:48,60 --> 01:44:53,63 me this development agreement per se and. You know but it does open up 1180 01:44:53,64 --> 01:44:57,48 a bunch of other questions because you know in this case we're talking about this 1181 01:44:58,01 --> 01:45:04,25 Swedish has been proactive and smart about approaching this but right now where it 1182 01:45:04,26 --> 01:45:07,44 makes everything else look even more uncertain that's that scares me more than 1183 01:45:07,45 --> 01:45:13,39 anything I think so. But thanks for all your thoughts and I want to I want to thank 1184 01:45:13,40 --> 01:45:20,23 him for making. For clarifying that that it's not that 1185 01:45:20,68 --> 01:45:24,34 we've been given Well take this or don't take it it has been 1186 01:45:24,35 --> 01:45:30,09 a very collaborative effort and I appreciate that it was just trying to make sure 1187 01:45:30,10 --> 01:45:31,27 that we address this 1188 01:45:31,77 --> 01:45:36,47 a national concern that came up with the beginning of the process to see if we 1189 01:45:36,72 --> 01:45:42,26 still felt like we were stranded but I think that what you've said it's quite true 1190 01:45:42,45 --> 01:45:48,46 that our input has been taken productively and constructively in the development 1191 01:45:48,47 --> 01:45:55,24 agreement. Anything else. I thought we were really styling 1192 01:45:55,51 --> 01:46:01,33 might have almost gone out here at eight twenty. So should I open up another topic 1193 01:46:01,34 --> 01:46:08,15 coming yeah. All right OK Any other anything else all right 1194 01:46:08,19 --> 01:46:12,91 so we'll go ahead and close this meaning it I have eight forty seven thank you very 1195 01:46:12,92 --> 01:46:18,01 much everybody will see you in two weeks and will be back in cast chambers two 1196 01:46:18,02 --> 01:46:21,17 weeks are OK I think you kid.