1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,320 Bedell Terry: This is Fidel Terry. And it's February 18. at 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:10,890 two p 2pm. I'm with Dr. Betty Jo. On this online zoom 3 00:00:10,890 --> 00:00:14,340 platform, we're about to begin our oral history interview for 4 00:00:14,340 --> 00:00:19,320 UB stories. The purpose of UB stories, the 100th anniversary 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,400 oral history project is to celebrate the university's 6 00:00:23,580 --> 00:00:27,600 centennial. by preserving the memory of those influenced by 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,410 the University of Baltimore. Over the years, we will be 8 00:00:31,410 --> 00:00:35,640 creating a digital archive, an exhibit and making these 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,470 recordings available online through the Internet Archive. So 10 00:00:40,470 --> 00:00:42,960 thank you very much for joining me today. 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,490 Unknown: The basic format we're going to use is that I'll ask a 12 00:00:47,490 --> 00:00:50,940 few questions about yourself as well as your experience at the 13 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:56,640 University. We'll have between 60 and 90 minutes to have a 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,500 conversation about both those things. So getting started, 15 00:01:01,830 --> 00:01:04,050 where were you born and where did you grow up? 16 00:01:06,930 --> 00:01:11,010 I was born and raised in I was born actually in Harlem and 17 00:01:11,250 --> 00:01:17,490 raised between the city and out near LaGuardia Airport in a 18 00:01:17,490 --> 00:01:22,950 little area called corona. No, Corona. Okay. Okay. Yeah. 19 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,140 I went to school on Long Island. 20 00:01:25,650 --> 00:01:31,530 Oh, did you? Okay. Yeah, I did all of my early education in 21 00:01:31,530 --> 00:01:37,920 Catholic and public schools, St. Gabriel's in Corona, East 22 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:43,950 Elmhurst and Forest Hills High School is where I finished high 23 00:01:43,950 --> 00:01:46,440 school at Yeah, my last two years. 24 00:01:48,150 --> 00:01:50,910 What was your family life growing up? Did you come from a 25 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:55,560 large family? Small family, 26 00:01:55,590 --> 00:02:01,080 very large family, in a multi know a large family in a multi 27 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:07,830 generational household. So I grew up with my parents, my 28 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:14,790 grandparents. My great grandfather had passed away, I 29 00:02:14,790 --> 00:02:18,120 guess two couple years before I was born. But my great 30 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,520 grandmother was there. And I spent most of my time with her. 31 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,170 She was born in Baltimore. 32 00:02:26,820 --> 00:02:33,480 Did you find that was a an advantage as far as having a 33 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,990 support of your family there to have multi generational? 34 00:02:38,490 --> 00:02:43,380 I think so. And as I've raised my children, I've tried to keep 35 00:02:43,380 --> 00:02:48,420 them very close to the older generations, because I think I 36 00:02:48,420 --> 00:02:53,100 benefited from it. It wasn't because they could actually tell 37 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:56,490 me what was coming ahead. But they could give me advice that I 38 00:02:56,490 --> 00:02:59,670 use throughout the years. Sometimes I paid attention, and 39 00:02:59,670 --> 00:03:06,210 sometimes I didn't. But it was very useful. And in that regard, 40 00:03:06,630 --> 00:03:10,320 you know, there is nothing new under the sun. And sometimes 41 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,920 that older perspective can help us better understand what we're 42 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:15,900 facing and how to make decisions. 43 00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:23,340 So you graduated high school from Forest Hills, right? And 44 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:27,180 then made the jump to USC. 45 00:03:28,170 --> 00:03:33,150 And no, I didn't jump directly to USC, I went to Los Angeles 46 00:03:33,150 --> 00:03:37,890 City Community College. I went to stay with my dad who lived in 47 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:43,950 California at that point, and got myself into law at Los 48 00:03:43,950 --> 00:03:49,320 Angeles City Community College and graduated from there and 49 00:03:49,860 --> 00:03:54,390 ended up at the recommendation of one of my instructors 50 00:03:54,750 --> 00:03:58,590 applying for Ford Foundation Scholarship, which I received 51 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:06,090 and went to to USC. And as they say the rest is history. I 52 00:04:06,090 --> 00:04:10,650 finished my bachelor's there. And then when I finished my 53 00:04:10,650 --> 00:04:15,570 bachelor's degree, I applied to UCLA, got into UCLA and African 54 00:04:15,570 --> 00:04:20,910 Studies and did my doctorate and my masters at UCLA 55 00:04:22,350 --> 00:04:25,950 and African Studies. Was that just an emerging program when 56 00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:29,340 you went or was that established? 57 00:04:29,699 --> 00:04:32,969 It well it was well established at UCLA, there was certain 58 00:04:32,969 --> 00:04:36,959 schools land grant universities, mainly and public research 59 00:04:36,959 --> 00:04:43,619 institutions like UCLA that had been developing this as a field 60 00:04:43,619 --> 00:04:47,759 for a long time. Wisconsin was another place where African 61 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:56,309 Studies was very prominent. And Michigan a couple of other 62 00:04:56,309 --> 00:04:59,999 places that had really developed their African Studies probably 63 00:04:59,999 --> 00:05:05,639 program, Howard University was another one. And many of the 64 00:05:05,669 --> 00:05:10,679 graduates from UCLA program ended up seeding the the next 65 00:05:10,679 --> 00:05:13,859 generation of African Studies. And it was a burgeoning of 66 00:05:13,859 --> 00:05:19,559 publication. From that point. I was fortunate that year and in 67 00:05:19,559 --> 00:05:22,889 fact, many of us, they still run the program, the study abroad 68 00:05:22,889 --> 00:05:28,169 program. And I ended up with a seat in that program and went to 69 00:05:28,169 --> 00:05:35,039 Ghana for a year as a graduate student as master student, and 70 00:05:35,039 --> 00:05:38,519 studied at the University of Ghana in their Institute of 71 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:41,909 African Studies. And then years later, I went back as a 72 00:05:41,909 --> 00:05:44,729 Fulbright er and actually taught in that same program. 73 00:05:45,750 --> 00:05:49,410 Tell me about your your experience in Ghana. Was that 74 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:55,080 just studying or the day have you out in the community? 75 00:05:56,490 --> 00:06:02,190 Oh, no, I was in the field. Because my work involved theater 76 00:06:02,220 --> 00:06:07,950 and oral traditions, and oral historiography. So I was very 77 00:06:07,950 --> 00:06:12,750 much in the community. I actually performed in a little 78 00:06:12,750 --> 00:06:19,380 tiny part in a play. I went to a variety of the major cities in 79 00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:24,870 Ghana. And I also went into many of the smaller communities and 80 00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:30,630 villages in Ghana as well. And I worked with friends that I had 81 00:06:30,780 --> 00:06:38,520 known from UCLA and ended up doing field research on 82 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:43,650 festivals and festival drama, which influenced my doctoral 83 00:06:43,650 --> 00:06:45,870 research years later. 84 00:06:47,459 --> 00:06:55,289 So you came back, got your doctorate, then you, you taught 85 00:06:55,289 --> 00:06:56,879 at University of Louisville. 86 00:06:57,990 --> 00:07:03,180 I did, I taught at the University of Louisville. For 87 00:07:03,180 --> 00:07:06,750 about six years, they were just beginning their Pan African 88 00:07:06,750 --> 00:07:14,550 Studies program. And I ended up there in that Prop in that 89 00:07:14,550 --> 00:07:21,210 program in that process. But I had first taught at University 90 00:07:21,210 --> 00:07:28,770 of Rhode Island for where I got tenure to actually and did quite 91 00:07:28,770 --> 00:07:34,050 a bit of writing. I had a fellowship, Rockefeller 92 00:07:34,050 --> 00:07:38,580 Foundation fellowship to Brown University, in the rights and 93 00:07:38,580 --> 00:07:44,100 reasons Theater, which was an extraordinary program at that 94 00:07:44,100 --> 00:07:47,190 time was mainly focused on African American theater, 95 00:07:48,180 --> 00:07:53,880 writers producers, and I worked with the late George Houston 96 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,840 bass, who was the director, I think he was the founding 97 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:04,290 director of that program. So I had a lot of good exposure, a 98 00:08:04,290 --> 00:08:10,230 lot of work very close work with people who were in the field who 99 00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:14,970 are professionals, as well as academics. And it really 100 00:08:14,970 --> 00:08:19,890 enhanced my ability to understand the subject that I 101 00:08:19,890 --> 00:08:21,870 had taken on is my life's work. 102 00:08:23,490 --> 00:08:29,190 What brought you to that life's work. You know, when you select 103 00:08:29,190 --> 00:08:34,440 a major, sometimes you don't know what the results going to 104 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:39,030 be. Right? What drew you to that? 105 00:08:42,750 --> 00:08:47,400 I tell this story all the time. That's why I'm smiling. When I 106 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,470 was about 10 years old in New York, and you know, New York, is 107 00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:56,730 music around you all the time and festival around you all the 108 00:08:56,730 --> 00:09:04,530 time. And I love salsa music, fell in love with African music. 109 00:09:05,310 --> 00:09:10,920 And there was an album I played to my grandmother's dismay over 110 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,600 and over and over again, by Olatunji called drums of 111 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,280 passion. And I just fell in love with the rhythm. I fell in love 112 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,630 with the music with the language. I mean, I didn't 113 00:09:24,630 --> 00:09:29,430 understand what they were saying. I just loved it. And my 114 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:38,520 grandmother, who was born in Baltimore herself, was actually 115 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:46,260 a performer. With you, Blake, and performed in what was called 116 00:09:46,260 --> 00:09:54,720 Chocolate dandies and bam Ville and they did 72 I found her in 117 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:02,220 the archives in New York 72 shows and and actually Josephine 118 00:10:02,220 --> 00:10:08,100 Baker was part of that ensemble. So I had theater all around me, 119 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:12,210 I had music around me. But it wasn't just the theater, I was 120 00:10:12,210 --> 00:10:19,410 really interested in, what made it work, how they were using 121 00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:28,020 story, what stories were being told the craft itself. And 122 00:10:28,020 --> 00:10:34,830 because of that, I ended up pursuing as part of my master's, 123 00:10:36,420 --> 00:10:40,410 an area in African American theater. So I did a lot of work 124 00:10:40,410 --> 00:10:45,090 on African American theater. And unfortunately, most of the 125 00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:48,570 places where I was teaching, I could only sneak it into the 126 00:10:48,570 --> 00:10:53,400 curriculum, I couldn't actually do a full course on African 127 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,120 American theater the way that I wanted to, because it's not just 128 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,960 literary, it's understanding the use of language. It's 129 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,230 understanding the socio political dynamics, it's 130 00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:08,490 understanding characters. And because I grew up in this multi 131 00:11:08,490 --> 00:11:12,570 generational household, and I had theater around me all the 132 00:11:12,570 --> 00:11:19,020 time, I felt that I was drawn to it. There, there was nothing 133 00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:21,840 else that was going to satisfy me, quite honestly, I thought 134 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,470 about going to law school. And I said, I'm going to be bored to 135 00:11:25,470 --> 00:11:29,730 death. There's no point in me doing that. I had thought about 136 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:34,500 medical school at one point. But I know I would be crying all the 137 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:37,620 time, because I was going to do pediatrics. And I love kids, and 138 00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:43,740 I couldn't take it. So this was fine. For me. This was great for 139 00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:49,410 me, in fact, because I'm also a writer. So the fact that I was 140 00:11:49,410 --> 00:11:54,300 exposing myself to so much creativity was very helpful. As 141 00:11:54,300 --> 00:12:01,140 I began to develop my own art. I used to do performance poetry in 142 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:09,780 in Los Angeles. I was very much involved in various parks and 143 00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:14,910 recs activities at the time, when people were doing 144 00:12:14,910 --> 00:12:20,070 performance art. So it just suited my personality, and I 145 00:12:20,070 --> 00:12:25,860 feel that I've I made the right choice. And then I married a 146 00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:33,510 choreographer. There you go. So you know, that was it. There 147 00:12:33,510 --> 00:12:37,200 you go. You can't you can't get away from it even at home. 148 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,660 No, you can't. And you know, my grandmother and my husband, 149 00:12:42,660 --> 00:12:48,090 choreographer got along quite well. They would just talk about 150 00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:50,580 different things in dancing because she was a dancer, 151 00:12:51,630 --> 00:12:56,580 singer. And they had great conversations. 152 00:12:59,190 --> 00:13:06,660 No, well, in Ghana, you did a research as a framework for K 153 00:13:06,660 --> 00:13:12,180 through 12 development. Were you able to, to implement that? 154 00:13:15,419 --> 00:13:21,749 I wrote up quite a few things. But no, I've never been able to 155 00:13:21,749 --> 00:13:27,749 implement it. And it's, it's unfortunate, but no, I've never 156 00:13:27,749 --> 00:13:37,019 been able to implement it. The way that in the kingship area, 157 00:13:37,049 --> 00:13:40,829 where I was working in this local is they call it a local 158 00:13:40,829 --> 00:13:46,889 community, but it's a large swath of southeast southwest 159 00:13:46,889 --> 00:13:55,049 Ghana. And when I was there, I was observing drum music, 160 00:13:55,049 --> 00:13:59,939 actually, and the language of drum music. And I noticed that 161 00:13:59,939 --> 00:14:04,949 there were a lot of children around all the time. And I asked 162 00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:10,799 the linguist, as well as the the chief, the head drummer, the 163 00:14:10,799 --> 00:14:16,949 master drummer, how they trained children, you know, how do they 164 00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:22,649 know which children should be under their wing to train them 165 00:14:22,649 --> 00:14:28,049 as future drummers? Because it's a very important activity in in 166 00:14:28,049 --> 00:14:34,439 the community. And he gave me quite a few good examples. One 167 00:14:34,439 --> 00:14:38,909 was that observing children, that the more that you observe 168 00:14:38,909 --> 00:14:43,979 them, and the more that they demonstrate interest in a 169 00:14:43,979 --> 00:14:50,069 particular thing, like some kids, one of my grandson's loved 170 00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:55,019 bugs when he was young. So we thought he was going to go into 171 00:14:55,019 --> 00:15:01,379 some form of science. And so the family took him around, you 172 00:15:01,379 --> 00:15:05,519 know, plants and all kinds of things where he would get that 173 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,389 exposure. Now he wants to he's on his way to college, and now 174 00:15:09,389 --> 00:15:14,819 he wants to study real estate. So you know, you never know. 175 00:15:15,449 --> 00:15:21,089 But, but but he said that what they do is if the children show 176 00:15:21,089 --> 00:15:24,719 interest, then they start developing that skill set for 177 00:15:24,719 --> 00:15:30,329 them, not to not to force them into it, but rather to help them 178 00:15:30,359 --> 00:15:34,439 understand their their own talents, abilities and interest. 179 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:41,519 And the same drummer told me that he was a stutterer. And so 180 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:45,329 he learned the drums as a way to communicate because it helped 181 00:15:45,329 --> 00:15:48,359 him to learn how to communicate, and he ended up growing out of 182 00:15:48,359 --> 00:15:53,879 the stuttering as he developed the proficiency in, in talking 183 00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:54,479 drums. 184 00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:58,049 So you were you were in Ghana for a year. 185 00:15:58,919 --> 00:16:04,439 I was in Ghana for a year twice, ah, first as a student, and then 186 00:16:04,439 --> 00:16:06,719 the second time around as a Fulbrighter. 187 00:16:07,410 --> 00:16:10,680 Now as a Fulbright, can you tell me about the experience of being 188 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,060 a Fulbright Scholar? 189 00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:18,780 Um, it was quite, it was quite an honor. And still is, what the 190 00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:25,050 Fulbright offers scholars is an opportunity to go someplace in 191 00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:29,520 the world, and study what their area of interests and 192 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:35,970 proficiencies are sort of, you know, mid to upper career type 193 00:16:35,970 --> 00:16:39,660 of opportunity, where you can focus on your work, and you're 194 00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:44,850 not really in a classroom or those kinds of things. And the 195 00:16:44,850 --> 00:16:49,500 first time that I went to Ghana, I was a student, obviously. And 196 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:53,640 so I was in classroom, I took classes in the Institute of 197 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:59,070 African Studies. I studied with several professors while I was 198 00:16:59,070 --> 00:17:03,150 there. So even though I was in Ghana, for that year, I was 199 00:17:03,150 --> 00:17:06,240 actually more of a graduate student than I was a scholar at 200 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:13,650 that point. So going back as a scholar, allowed me to pursue my 201 00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:17,580 research interests more in depth. And I do have several 202 00:17:17,580 --> 00:17:21,180 publications that that came out of that. But it was mainly in 203 00:17:21,180 --> 00:17:29,370 the area of oral tradition, oral literature, and Gender Studies, 204 00:17:29,550 --> 00:17:35,370 and cultural studies, writ large, from the area. So the 205 00:17:35,370 --> 00:17:40,380 Fulbright gave me access at a different level. It also gave me 206 00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:45,480 access to other scholars in Ghana, some of whom I'd already 207 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:52,710 known, and who supported my application. It also allowed me 208 00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:59,010 an opportunity to go places that were in part, supported by the 209 00:17:59,010 --> 00:18:03,600 grant itself. And then when I came back, I had to write a 210 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,250 report, which I did. And I got several publications out of 211 00:18:08,250 --> 00:18:13,350 that, and several invitations to contribute to other 212 00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:20,310 publications, both in West Africa. One piece that was 213 00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:25,020 published, oh, gosh, I forgotten now where there are pieces that 214 00:18:25,020 --> 00:18:29,880 are published in Nigeria, and so forth, they came out of that 215 00:18:30,090 --> 00:18:32,340 evolution of my scholarship. 216 00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:43,860 You seem to be a continuous writer of publications. Can you 217 00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:52,800 tell me about your journey as a writer? I don't have that gene. 218 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:57,030 To write publications. I can write research, but 219 00:18:57,060 --> 00:19:03,570 publications, but tell me about both some of these publications 220 00:19:03,570 --> 00:19:09,240 that you've you've been published in? Um, 221 00:19:09,330 --> 00:19:17,040 well, I've published two books. One book was commissioned for 222 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,290 advanced placement students in secondary school focused on the 223 00:19:22,290 --> 00:19:31,410 African Union. That was in 2005, I think. And then, the other 224 00:19:31,410 --> 00:19:38,310 one, the other major book that I published in 1996, and that has 225 00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:44,910 quite an audience is called Ocean chagasi. The elegant deity 226 00:19:44,910 --> 00:19:50,490 of wealth, power and femininity. And that came out of my 227 00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:58,380 experiences directly in Nigeria. And it's the book that I think 228 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:06,960 among publications, his most popular and most often cited, 229 00:20:07,620 --> 00:20:15,300 the other articles professional articles that are published in 230 00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:21,150 journals. And in collected essays by, you know, topical 231 00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:27,150 essays include women writing Africa, which was published by 232 00:20:27,150 --> 00:20:33,630 the Feminist Press, I contributed to the introduction 233 00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:39,570 to that I contributed to sections in the publication and 234 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,400 also writing head notes. For certain oral poems that were 235 00:20:44,430 --> 00:20:49,800 included there. I've always loved to write. I remember 236 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:56,160 writing my first story in eighth grade about jeans, because I was 237 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,630 not allowed to wear jeans. i Great grandmother would add a 238 00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:05,610 fit if I wore a pair of jeans. So I wrote a story about jeans 239 00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:09,630 and I liked the jeans, but I couldn't wear them. And I said 240 00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:12,690 at the end of the story, I wrote this story because I cannot wear 241 00:21:12,690 --> 00:21:19,380 jeans. It was sort of a little rebellious state that I was in 242 00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:23,640 at that point, of course, in the eighth grade. But I've always 243 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,840 loved to write, I've written poetry. I've published poetry. 244 00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:35,580 One of my poems was published in the National Library of poetry 245 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:41,220 and read in one of the publications. I have poetry, I 246 00:21:41,220 --> 00:21:48,030 think, two poems in a collection. That was in tribute 247 00:21:48,030 --> 00:21:56,610 to Nelson Mandela call Mandela, a Mandela. And I have two pieces 248 00:21:56,610 --> 00:22:03,360 in there. I have a piece a longer piece in the oh, 249 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:08,460 goodness, I'm going to forget the name of it. The African 250 00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:12,060 American, it's one of the African American scholarly 251 00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:16,380 publications, and they change black American literature form. 252 00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:19,080 That's what it was its shape. The name has changed, but it's 253 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,730 black American literature form. And publications on worldly 254 00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:29,550 showing in several places. So you know, I, I think I've done 255 00:22:29,550 --> 00:22:33,090 fairly well as a scholar. And I'm still writing I've got a 256 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:40,950 book that I that I'm having edited now. That's with a 257 00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:45,780 publisher who's reviewing it, and a memoir. So I'm still 258 00:22:45,780 --> 00:22:48,150 writing. Good. Good. 259 00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:53,160 You mentioned Nigeria. Yes. We're there for research. 260 00:22:54,210 --> 00:22:58,020 Um, I was there for research, and I was there because I 261 00:22:58,020 --> 00:22:59,130 married a Nigerian. 262 00:23:00,180 --> 00:23:03,240 Well, that would bring you to Nigeria. That would take you to 263 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,020 Nigeria. 264 00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:11,400 Yeah. So um, so I lived in Nigeria. I've been in and out, I 265 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:18,090 still go in and out of the country. And I picked boy did I 266 00:23:18,090 --> 00:23:21,960 pick up a lot there. But that takes me back to the drums of 267 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,450 passion. It was Yoruba language that I was listening to as a 10 268 00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:32,670 year old but didn't realize it. So I learned a lot there. I 269 00:23:32,670 --> 00:23:34,320 learned a lot in Nigeria. 270 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:44,219 You have a very diverse background at Kent State and 271 00:23:44,219 --> 00:23:48,719 California, California University East Bay. That would 272 00:23:48,719 --> 00:23:50,609 be up in the San Francisco area. 273 00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:55,950 Right, yes. in Hayward. 274 00:23:56,550 --> 00:24:01,830 Ah, okay. Okay. I lived in San Jose in San Francisco for a 275 00:24:01,830 --> 00:24:05,610 while. Okay, so I know where Hayward is. 276 00:24:05,729 --> 00:24:07,289 Yeah, that neck of the woods. 277 00:24:08,790 --> 00:24:12,180 So what drew you to the University of Baltimore? 278 00:24:13,620 --> 00:24:18,840 Well, as I mentioned earlier, my family my great grandmother, my 279 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:27,540 grandmother, my grandfather. My maternal grandfather, no, my. 280 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:33,570 Yeah, my maternal grandfather, my mother's father. We're all 281 00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:38,490 Baltimoreans my mother's mother, not my mother's father, because 282 00:24:38,490 --> 00:24:45,150 he's from South Carolina. He's in Charleston. So I had those 283 00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:50,880 connections and and as a child before I started school, they 284 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,140 used to bring me down here, I mean to Baltimore every summer 285 00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:59,910 because my great grandmother's parents was still alive. And so 286 00:24:59,910 --> 00:25:04,590 I I had great grandparents and great great grandparents. My 287 00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:09,030 great great grandfather passed away when I was maybe two or 288 00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:11,970 three years old. But for some reason I have an image of him in 289 00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:19,740 my mind. My great, great grandmother. I remember her very 290 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:25,440 well. She passed away I, before I started school, but I remember 291 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:33,780 her. And I also have pictures with her when I was younger, so 292 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:37,470 I have very deep roots in Baltimore. But as I've been 293 00:25:37,470 --> 00:25:42,900 doing my genealogical study, I have deep roots all up and down 294 00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:48,540 the East Coast. I recently, as a year ago found a relative who 295 00:25:48,540 --> 00:25:53,310 was born in Florida, that was shocking to me. But mainly my 296 00:25:53,310 --> 00:25:56,610 family comes from South Carolina, Charleston, golly, 297 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:04,890 Gullah Geechee and Virginia, huge number of people from 298 00:26:04,890 --> 00:26:12,420 Virginia, and Maryland. My father's side is Virginia, and 299 00:26:12,540 --> 00:26:23,730 jersey. My mother's side is South Carolina, New York. So 300 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,860 it's, you know, the whole east coast is where my family is, is 301 00:26:28,860 --> 00:26:34,110 based. And after I finished well, I didn't finish. But after 302 00:26:34,110 --> 00:26:38,490 I kind of settled down a little bit from globe, trotting and 303 00:26:38,490 --> 00:26:45,150 dragging my children all over the world. I moved back East. My 304 00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:49,860 mother was getting older, of course, my grandmother, thank 305 00:26:49,860 --> 00:26:53,040 God I got back in when I did, because she passed about a year 306 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,650 and a half after I came back from Nigeria. And, you know, 307 00:26:58,650 --> 00:27:02,430 like I said, I was very close to her. I was very close to my 308 00:27:02,430 --> 00:27:05,160 great grandmother, but she passed when I was in high 309 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:12,630 school. And that was a real trauma for me. But I came back, 310 00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:17,160 I guess, because I wanted my children to really know those 311 00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:21,150 older generations. And my brother was living in 312 00:27:21,150 --> 00:27:24,990 Connecticut. And I ended up taking the position first in 313 00:27:24,990 --> 00:27:29,040 Rhode Island, because it was a 45 minute drive between my 314 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:34,140 brother's place and mine. And he had three kids and I had three 315 00:27:34,140 --> 00:27:39,870 kids. So it worked out pretty well. And then he started moving 316 00:27:39,870 --> 00:27:43,740 around, I started moving around, you know, where that mobile 317 00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:50,400 generation. And so I went back to California for a while I went 318 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:57,480 to Louisville, and then Ohio, and eventually back to 319 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,580 California and down to Maryland again. So I had a lot of reasons 320 00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:07,290 to come to Baltimore. I was comfortable in Baltimore because 321 00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:12,000 of family ties. I reconnected with one of my older cousins, 322 00:28:12,930 --> 00:28:16,980 whom I hadn't seen in years, and I always thought was my big 323 00:28:16,980 --> 00:28:26,340 brother. But he wasn't. He is a cousin. And then, you know, just 324 00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:30,240 just being around family, I think was something that I 325 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:36,120 wanted to do. And I wanted my children to have access to you 326 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:44,610 be I thought was a good opportunity to fulfill that. 327 00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:53,520 Fortunately, I was there when my eldest cousin passed, she was 328 00:28:53,520 --> 00:29:00,930 9490. So coming back to Maryland, afforded me to be 329 00:29:00,930 --> 00:29:02,610 around her until she passed. 330 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:16,800 So you came to you be a 2010 or so? Yes, that's correct. And 331 00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:23,190 while you were up, what kind of changed it changes did you see 332 00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:34,290 in the university? Did did it progress? Did it stay static? 333 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,140 What was your view? What is your view? 334 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,860 Well, let me let me take a step back for a second. Um, what 335 00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:49,560 attracted me to UB was not just the family. What attracted me 336 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:56,760 was the location in the city. I knew a lot about Baltimore's 337 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:04,620 history, both from Family, but also from reading and, you know, 338 00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:08,010 doing a lot of work in the in the civil rights movement, and 339 00:30:08,010 --> 00:30:10,830 so on and so forth. So I thought that it was the kind of place 340 00:30:11,250 --> 00:30:18,840 that someone like me would thrive and be useful. So I was 341 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:27,720 attracted to it because of that. I was an AC fellow in 2006, and 342 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:33,360 had actually come to Baltimore and interviewed the previous 343 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:41,460 president on academic leadership at at that point. So I was 344 00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:45,510 familiar with the campus and where the campus was located. 345 00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:50,760 And I was excited by that. Because it was in not only an 346 00:30:50,790 --> 00:30:55,350 urban setting, but the cultural setting is just extraordinary. 347 00:30:56,220 --> 00:31:01,830 And I saw you be as having a lot of potential I still do. When I 348 00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:11,970 came to, to you be the college's of public affairs, I think it 349 00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:19,740 was called at that point and the El Gordon College were merged. 350 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:26,970 And part of what happened at that point was that the 351 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,310 administration had decided that it was going to grow the campus 352 00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:38,760 and grow the freshmen sophomore class. And the colleges were 353 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:50,310 then split into into two. And I was appointed to help that 354 00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:57,960 transition with the College of Arts and Sciences. I think that 355 00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:07,230 the, the transition from an upper division university, to a 356 00:32:07,230 --> 00:32:14,760 four year university was a challenge. Because the 357 00:32:14,970 --> 00:32:19,740 institution itself had been built on that upper division, 358 00:32:21,210 --> 00:32:26,100 identity, and that upper division programming and the 359 00:32:26,130 --> 00:32:30,990 upper division understanding of certain processes, including 360 00:32:31,170 --> 00:32:36,390 recruitment, retention, the funding challenges and so forth. 361 00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:44,760 I worked at huge institutions can't state I left Kent State, I 362 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:50,280 was an associate dean, when I went to California was a dean. 363 00:32:50,790 --> 00:32:56,520 And so I was used to operating in large environments. The 364 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:04,140 tradition, the the transition from a upper division to a full 365 00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:08,370 four year program was a challenge, I think, for most of 366 00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:14,790 the people who had been at the institution for a long period of 367 00:33:14,790 --> 00:33:20,940 time. And who then were now asked to do this, this other 368 00:33:20,940 --> 00:33:24,660 thing they have focused in their profession, and their abilities. 369 00:33:24,690 --> 00:33:29,310 just extraordinary. It was the transition into the the four 370 00:33:29,310 --> 00:33:32,160 year program that presented the most challenges. 371 00:33:35,010 --> 00:33:39,180 Herbal view, addressed those challenges. 372 00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:48,510 Well, I'm, I'm gonna answer that both ways. I think because I 373 00:33:48,510 --> 00:33:54,660 understood the four year and in fact, the the full range of 374 00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:05,520 freshmen to doctoral programs that I was able to see where 375 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:14,040 recruitment could improve and do better. But as, as we did in 376 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:22,290 Northern California, there were ties to the high schools, and 377 00:34:22,290 --> 00:34:28,200 sometimes to the middle schools. That was, well, it can't not I'm 378 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:35,040 sorry, not again, at East Bay, for example, there were very 379 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:40,650 deep ties that were fostered by the Cal State system with 380 00:34:40,650 --> 00:34:46,440 secondary and and the universities and particularly 381 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,850 the public universities. So there was already a structure in 382 00:34:50,850 --> 00:34:59,220 place. We had to put a structure in place. Okay. And I think that 383 00:34:59,220 --> 00:35:03,540 that was part of The challenge, because that meant that that 384 00:35:03,540 --> 00:35:08,100 faculty who were used to working at that level at that upper 385 00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:11,760 division level, then had to start thinking about well, what 386 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,800 do you do with, you know, kids who are coming in from high 387 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,840 school, I'm watching it with my grandson, for example, watching 388 00:35:22,290 --> 00:35:26,220 him make this transition to college, he's a little bit of a 389 00:35:26,220 --> 00:35:32,910 naked, so he'll be fine. But his maturity level is not quite 390 00:35:32,910 --> 00:35:37,500 there. And that's to be expected. He's 17 years old. So 391 00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:45,390 for people who are used to us to studying with students and 392 00:35:45,390 --> 00:35:50,850 directing students, who are more mature, who are basically 393 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,640 working during the day and coming to classes at night. That 394 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,000 for the faculty, I think it was a greater challenge than I 395 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:08,670 estimated. And for that reason, I think there was some things 396 00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:15,510 that could have been done better. And I think that the the 397 00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:22,860 support that was needed, didn't quite match the goals and the 398 00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:25,080 ambitions of the institution at that time. 399 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:36,150 So you not only taught but you helped form the the change. 400 00:36:37,020 --> 00:36:40,740 Right? Right. That's what I was tasked to do. 401 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:50,580 I look at at some of the organizations, you're part of 402 00:36:50,580 --> 00:36:54,030 the American Council on Education, the Authors Guild, 403 00:36:54,570 --> 00:36:59,280 the African Studies Association and the Council for Black 404 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:06,060 Studies. Alpha Lambda, Delta, national, academic honor society 405 00:37:06,330 --> 00:37:12,660 EFA, Kappa Alpha, Alpha Kappa, put my teeth back in Alpha Kappa 406 00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:18,990 mu, system, Honor Society, five, Beta Delta honor society for 407 00:37:18,990 --> 00:37:22,950 international scholars that can stay, and several other 408 00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:31,890 professionals organizations. What? Working with those groups, 409 00:37:31,890 --> 00:37:37,890 how did you bring that into, into your product into your 410 00:37:38,370 --> 00:37:45,060 writings and teachings and publications? Was it a one way 411 00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:52,980 street from these these groups, too? Or was it you bring it into 412 00:37:52,980 --> 00:37:53,850 the groups? 413 00:37:55,170 --> 00:38:02,040 No, those are awards recognitions, honors, you know, 414 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:09,480 however you call it for mainly my scholarship. So it wasn't 415 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,660 that I was bringing them in with the exception of the American 416 00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:22,260 Council on Education. The the college's ACU, which is the 417 00:38:22,260 --> 00:38:28,650 American Association of Colleges and Universities, where they 418 00:38:28,740 --> 00:38:31,290 actually wrote a couple of proposals, one of which was 419 00:38:31,290 --> 00:38:36,570 funded to take small group of faculty to one of the 420 00:38:36,570 --> 00:38:42,630 conferences as we were building out some of some of the the 421 00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:48,840 college's new responsibilities. And the others were just like, 422 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,400 the International Scholars award was a recognition for the work 423 00:38:53,400 --> 00:39:01,320 that that I did, I took students to Ghana for a month and a half 424 00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:07,290 when I was at Kent State, so and then I worked with the 425 00:39:07,290 --> 00:39:11,700 international affairs office, I was a pro Fulbright Program 426 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:18,930 Officer at Kent State. So it was in recognition of that. It you 427 00:39:18,930 --> 00:39:23,700 know, you have access to those organizations. The one that I 428 00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:27,390 think I was most active with, probably was the Fulbright 429 00:39:27,390 --> 00:39:34,350 Program. And for obvious reasons, I kept engaging with 430 00:39:34,350 --> 00:39:40,380 them over and over again. And now, I'll probably go back to 431 00:39:40,380 --> 00:39:44,310 doing that because I was on several different committees, 432 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,120 including interviewing applicants from across the 433 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:53,460 country's in participating at at that level with the American 434 00:39:53,460 --> 00:40:03,480 Council on Education. I was very, very, very Active up until 435 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:11,670 the the pandemic hit. I worked with one of the offices where 436 00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:17,400 they bring people back in who have been fellows to work with 437 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:23,190 the next group of faculty who are going to transition out of 438 00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:28,770 faculty roles into department chairs or so on and so forth. I 439 00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:31,980 wrote a program, my colleagues wrote programs from the 440 00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:37,680 different perspectives. And we would do a week long programs 441 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,920 with with people who are recommended by their colleges 442 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:47,010 and universities to attend these functions to learn how to manage 443 00:40:47,010 --> 00:40:52,170 departments, and so forth, all of the all the stuff that goes 444 00:40:52,170 --> 00:40:57,870 with being a department chair. So that's how I would engage 445 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,970 those honors, awards, recognitions, and so forth, with 446 00:41:02,970 --> 00:41:05,940 wherever I was, whether it was University of Baltimore 447 00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:06,930 someplace else, 448 00:41:08,670 --> 00:41:18,990 you go back to the University of Baltimore, the transitions from 449 00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:26,190 a upper level to a four year? What was your opinion of it? 450 00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:34,230 I don't know if I'd call it a an opinion. I think it was an 451 00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:39,990 observation. Let me let me put it that way. That in terms of a 452 00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:50,490 goal, I believed and still do, that. It's unnecessary. 453 00:41:53,040 --> 00:42:00,810 opportunity for you, B in terms of its own growth over time. I 454 00:42:00,810 --> 00:42:07,980 think the challenge to that and to that growth, is that and I 455 00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:14,970 didn't know this at the time, there's a disconnect between the 456 00:42:15,810 --> 00:42:21,330 the school system in Baltimore and the surrounding communities, 457 00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:26,220 and the University of Baltimore. Now that's not true across the 458 00:42:26,220 --> 00:42:36,060 board. It's not true with respect to College Park, but 459 00:42:36,060 --> 00:42:42,420 those are universities with a different historical structure, 460 00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:48,450 different outreach opportunities, and different 461 00:42:48,450 --> 00:42:53,520 visions of itself and therefore different resources. So you have 462 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,230 a lot of young people who are scrambling to get into college 463 00:42:58,230 --> 00:43:07,620 park, whereas young people in in Baltimore City and particularly 464 00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:11,640 not necessarily just not necessarily the county as much, 465 00:43:13,110 --> 00:43:24,840 but Baltimore City typically are not geared towards looking at UB 466 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:31,080 as an opportunity. And part of it is that the the disconnect, 467 00:43:32,430 --> 00:43:36,480 and I have not really been any place where that disconnect 468 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:37,140 existed 469 00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:45,990 between the university which is best positioned to house and to 470 00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:51,540 train those students, and the students themselves didn't 471 00:43:51,540 --> 00:43:52,230 exist. 472 00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:58,470 Right, thank you absolutely. hit it right on the head. As far as 473 00:43:58,470 --> 00:44:05,040 the disconnect between really recruitment of the the freshmen 474 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:13,920 and sophomores into UB I think I still saw that during my time at 475 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:14,490 UB. 476 00:44:16,830 --> 00:44:22,560 Bedell Terry: Also a disconnect with the community colleges that 477 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:29,010 should serve as feeder should serve as a feeder into UB. Yeah. 478 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,240 President smoke I thought he had a funny you 479 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:41,670 Unknown: mentioned the community that hearing you I'm not hearing 480 00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:47,610 you. Okay, there you are. You're back. You were saying something 481 00:44:47,610 --> 00:44:48,660 about the feeder. 482 00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:55,710 Yet FirstNet smoke had a proposal to use you be the same 483 00:44:55,710 --> 00:45:02,400 way. New York City uses CCN Why, right? And I thought that was a 484 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:03,570 fabulous idea. 485 00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:05,310 It's a great idea. 486 00:45:06,839 --> 00:45:09,749 But we'll say politics. 487 00:45:10,379 --> 00:45:16,409 Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, are you be you see UBS faculty is really 488 00:45:16,409 --> 00:45:22,859 an extraordinary faculty. I mean, I really give the faculty 489 00:45:23,549 --> 00:45:28,409 a lot of credibility and applause for the work that they 490 00:45:28,409 --> 00:45:34,049 do. They do a lot of what we would call integrated work 491 00:45:34,049 --> 00:45:38,069 within the communities, something like an East Bay, for 492 00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:44,729 example. East Bay was a very well kept secret, because most 493 00:45:44,729 --> 00:45:51,419 of the faculty at East Bay wanted to teach. They did 494 00:45:51,419 --> 00:45:54,329 research but they wanted to teach more than anything else. 495 00:45:54,329 --> 00:45:58,559 And guess where they got their doctorate strung across the bay 496 00:45:58,589 --> 00:46:05,279 in Berkeley. So you have this very high level of productivity 497 00:46:05,309 --> 00:46:10,589 and passion for teaching and, and whatever their area of 498 00:46:10,589 --> 00:46:14,309 expertise happened to be, who were interested in working with 499 00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:18,359 the young people in those communities. And many of them 500 00:46:18,359 --> 00:46:24,479 had ties with people around the community, including the 501 00:46:24,479 --> 00:46:31,979 churches and synagogues, the mosque, the various yoga 502 00:46:32,219 --> 00:46:37,439 practices and all of that they were very integrated into, into 503 00:46:37,439 --> 00:46:40,949 the community itself, whether they still lived in Berkeley, or 504 00:46:40,949 --> 00:46:46,589 they lived in East Bay. And so making that connection with 505 00:46:46,589 --> 00:46:48,989 young people in those communities, and particularly 506 00:46:48,989 --> 00:46:52,529 the high schools, and vetting the students who were actually 507 00:46:52,529 --> 00:46:58,499 ready to take on those, those challenges was easier, I think, 508 00:46:58,889 --> 00:47:08,369 then, then the situation we find in Baltimore. I'm a product of 509 00:47:09,089 --> 00:47:14,189 the recruitment pipeline between a Community College and the 510 00:47:14,189 --> 00:47:20,309 University of Southern California. My professors at 511 00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:25,889 that time, said, Hey, you need to apply for this fellowship. 512 00:47:26,699 --> 00:47:32,189 And funny, they told me, Don't go to UCLA, go to USC. And they 513 00:47:32,189 --> 00:47:36,029 supported me going to USC, because they said that I would 514 00:47:36,029 --> 00:47:39,839 do better on a campus where there were fewer students than a 515 00:47:39,839 --> 00:47:43,919 campus where they were 1000 students in a classroom. So it's 516 00:47:43,919 --> 00:47:48,119 that kind of intimate knowledge that the community college 517 00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:55,469 faculty at, at Los Angeles City Community College hat. Oh, by 518 00:47:55,469 --> 00:48:00,269 the way, Morgan Freeman, put money behind the development of 519 00:48:00,269 --> 00:48:06,209 Morgan Freeman theater at La CC now, that's how creative la CC 520 00:48:06,509 --> 00:48:12,479 was over the years. And it has expanded since then. So I think 521 00:48:12,479 --> 00:48:20,159 that in my mind, this is what I saw, coming into this transition 522 00:48:20,189 --> 00:48:26,309 and trying to operationalize that in Baltimore, but not 523 00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:30,809 really understanding that, that there's that that connection 524 00:48:30,809 --> 00:48:35,909 wasn't there. And I don't think it's anybody's fault. I just 525 00:48:35,909 --> 00:48:40,079 think it's just the way that it was. Yeah, you know, we have to 526 00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:43,769 look at that in excuse me, we have to look at that in in 527 00:48:43,769 --> 00:48:48,029 historical terms, to really get at the root of it. 528 00:48:50,610 --> 00:48:54,570 So we've come to the end of my questions. Is there anything 529 00:48:54,570 --> 00:48:55,590 you'd like to add? 530 00:48:58,050 --> 00:49:05,550 I still think that UB has a lot of potential. Not only because 531 00:49:05,550 --> 00:49:10,290 of its location, but I think that it has a lot of potential 532 00:49:10,290 --> 00:49:14,610 because of the uniqueness of the programs that are offered there. 533 00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:20,010 And the way that the faculty, the faculty really does think 534 00:49:20,010 --> 00:49:25,320 outside the box often. And so they've designed courses and 535 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:34,110 programs made connections with, for example, the program in in 536 00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:38,460 Jessup with the connection between the College of Public 537 00:49:38,460 --> 00:49:47,610 Policy, the Veterans Program, the Honors Program in SIADH, the 538 00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:52,440 which is really extraordinary, the students who work on the 539 00:49:53,010 --> 00:50:01,680 space programs and designing for NASA that I had to student in my 540 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:06,990 Interdisciplinary Studies class, who was working on on designing, 541 00:50:06,990 --> 00:50:11,820 I forget what it was now, but designing something for NASA. I, 542 00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:21,870 you know, who would have thought that right. Now imagine students 543 00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:26,430 in that environment who have that ability and talent and and 544 00:50:26,430 --> 00:50:30,150 desire if they knew and could get into programs that would 545 00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:33,600 help them achieve that. What a crowning jewel that would be. 546 00:50:35,850 --> 00:50:40,620 Yes, it would let you serve the community, which is what it 547 00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:41,190 should do. 548 00:50:42,090 --> 00:50:46,020 Right. Right. Absolutely. That's what every institution I've ever 549 00:50:46,020 --> 00:50:51,630 been at has done. serve the community from UCLA right down 550 00:50:51,630 --> 00:50:52,830 to LA CC. 551 00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,630 Well, I appreciate your time with us today. And I want to 552 00:51:00,630 --> 00:51:05,820 thank you for your time with us today. And Fatima 553 00:51:07,650 --> 00:51:09,750 you welcome and thank you for