1 00:00:00,04 --> 00:00:05,32 It's truly an honor to be here tonight I've been working on money and politics 2 00:00:05,33 --> 00:00:11,40 issues for twenty years now but for five years before that on environmental issues 3 00:00:11,41 --> 00:00:11,75 including 4 00:00:11,76 --> 00:00:16,14 a lot of ballot measure campaign so I think I've probably worked on twenty or 5 00:00:16,15 --> 00:00:21,60 twenty five different ballot measure campaigns over the years and I'm pretty sure 6 00:00:21,61 --> 00:00:22,27 I've never seen 7 00:00:22,28 --> 00:00:26,44 a volunteer signature gathering effort anywhere near this substantial I think I've 8 00:00:26,45 --> 00:00:26,57 been 9 00:00:26,58 --> 00:00:30,70 a few that maybe got one hundred thousand volunteer signatures but nothing like this 10 00:00:30,74 --> 00:00:37,58 in my lifetime I have not gathered twenty thousand signatures so to. To do that 11 00:00:38,17 --> 00:00:44,88 is truly phenomenal. THANK YOU 12 00:00:45,24 --> 00:00:51,65 THANK YOU THANK YOU and you know I think that is 13 00:00:51,66 --> 00:00:57,51 a testament not only to the incredibly disciplined hard work that I know you out 14 00:00:57,52 --> 00:01:00,36 there because I know what it takes to do this kind of thing but I do think it is 15 00:01:00,37 --> 00:01:06,35 a testament to the depth of the seriousness of this problem and in some ways the 16 00:01:06,39 --> 00:01:12,56 character and resolve of the American people to to rise to this to just see 17 00:01:13,33 --> 00:01:17,89 signature efforts like this come out of the dirt on any issue so I truly think 18 00:01:17,90 --> 00:01:18,88 we're living in 19 00:01:18,92 --> 00:01:23,96 a special moment and I now so I'm honored to be here with you I think you for 20 00:01:23,97 --> 00:01:29,41 coming I know you have many other things that you could be doing tonight and so the 21 00:01:29,42 --> 00:01:33,08 fact that you're taking time on top of all the time you already spent gathering our 22 00:01:33,09 --> 00:01:36,78 signatures to come tonight to learn more about this issue and talk more about that 23 00:01:36,79 --> 00:01:38,59 issue you know means 24 00:01:38,60 --> 00:01:43,68 a lot to me so I'm saying that not only to be polite but also the fact that you 25 00:01:43,69 --> 00:01:45,41 have limited time is 26 00:01:45,42 --> 00:01:51,55 a central point I make in this book and I know it seems obvious right you know we 27 00:01:51,56 --> 00:01:54,60 all know we have a limited time but if you think about it from 28 00:01:54,61 --> 00:01:59,67 a political point of view you know between juggling our jobs where we've got you 29 00:01:59,68 --> 00:02:01,91 know. More things to do than we have in 30 00:02:01,92 --> 00:02:05,48 a work day you know you've got sick kids you've got to take care of her or sick 31 00:02:05,49 --> 00:02:10,73 parents or siblings you got chores to do at home we like to eat and sleep in all 32 00:02:10,74 --> 00:02:15,56 those you know if we're lucky I know you are spending two hours on this particular 33 00:02:15,57 --> 00:02:19,78 night taking in some political information but I think you're at best the most 34 00:02:20,16 --> 00:02:22,63 active citizen on average has about an hour 35 00:02:22,64 --> 00:02:27,96 a day to think about our public policy problems and issues and politics and what 36 00:02:27,97 --> 00:02:29,29 not and that is 37 00:02:29,30 --> 00:02:35,86 a pretty scarce resources it's limited right because our time is 38 00:02:35,87 --> 00:02:41,68 limited we limit political speech all the time and don't even think about it you 39 00:02:41,69 --> 00:02:47,17 know walk into pretty much any city council meeting in America and they'll be 40 00:02:47,18 --> 00:02:51,99 a public comment period where you can stand up and say anything that you want for 41 00:02:52,00 --> 00:02:56,91 two minutes sometimes it's one in Los Angeles it's one I've been there Sacramento 42 00:02:56,92 --> 00:03:01,14 we're trying to get it up to three but everyone agrees there needs to be 43 00:03:01,43 --> 00:03:06,27 a limit as otherwise of one person you know blabs on for an hour nobody else gets 44 00:03:06,28 --> 00:03:10,25 to talk I've seen some city council meetings like that where the members do that 45 00:03:10,26 --> 00:03:17,24 but now. In Congress you may find out you can do that they limit your speech quite 46 00:03:17,25 --> 00:03:20,78 severely watch C.-SPAN and they spend half their time argue about all the gentleman 47 00:03:20,79 --> 00:03:23,79 from Virginia has sixty seconds left will you yield cut out of it 48 00:03:23,80 --> 00:03:29,58 a very strict time limits on political speech in the U.S. 49 00:03:29,59 --> 00:03:36,35 Congress the United States Supreme Court limits political speech they will tell 50 00:03:36,52 --> 00:03:41,25 each lawyer from each side here's exactly how long your brief can be do not exceed 51 00:03:41,26 --> 00:03:44,85 fifteen pages there's a funny story in the book about what happened to B.P. 52 00:03:44,86 --> 00:03:46,42 Oil when they tried to use 53 00:03:46,43 --> 00:03:52,20 a smaller font type to squeeze more they got in trouble. And likewise you know when 54 00:03:52,21 --> 00:03:58,10 the oral arguments come it's thirty minutes for each side they are limiting speech 55 00:03:58,44 --> 00:04:04,63 and they're doing that too fur. Rather the First Amendment because freedom of 56 00:04:04,64 --> 00:04:09,47 speech for the people means we limit the duration in the volume of speech of any 57 00:04:09,48 --> 00:04:15,24 single person so that all sides can be heard so that judges can make decisions that 58 00:04:15,25 --> 00:04:21,42 are more wise and more fair so that legislators can balance all the viewpoints in 59 00:04:21,43 --> 00:04:22,78 the country and come to 60 00:04:22,79 --> 00:04:28,57 a better decision than they could themselves and again I say this as if it's 61 00:04:28,62 --> 00:04:35,17 obvious but it is not human nature this is something that we learn and I discovered 62 00:04:35,18 --> 00:04:36,64 that when I was volunteering 63 00:04:36,65 --> 00:04:42,35 a few years ago in my daughter's first grade classroom and I tell you you walk into 64 00:04:42,36 --> 00:04:47,54 a first grade class room they all talk at once all of the time and the teacher 65 00:04:47,55 --> 00:04:54,47 spends the bulk of the time. Why can't you and you know you look 66 00:04:54,51 --> 00:04:57,58 you noticed you've all been trained in this right because you're all sitting down 67 00:04:57,59 --> 00:05:04,27 not talking listening to me. And sometimes I think that 68 00:05:04,81 --> 00:05:09,75 five of the nine members of the United States Supreme Court must not have gone to 69 00:05:09,76 --> 00:05:13,23 kindergarten. Because this seems to be 70 00:05:13,24 --> 00:05:19,57 a totally foreign concept to them. And they're saying not to you know what I'm 71 00:05:19,58 --> 00:05:23,31 talking about is actual speech right like you physically speaking with your mouth 72 00:05:23,32 --> 00:05:28,11 talking about a political issue money is obviously not speech and Q. 73 00:05:28,12 --> 00:05:29,76 Magine what would happen if you're in 74 00:05:29,78 --> 00:05:35,06 a city council meeting and somebody waltzes up to the microphone and you know digs 75 00:05:35,07 --> 00:05:38,15 into their pockets as I got ten thousand dollars here I'd like to buy an hour's 76 00:05:38,15 --> 00:05:44,70 worth of time you will get two minutes I know about an hour place Thank you. And if 77 00:05:44,74 --> 00:05:48,71 you know the parliamentarian said Well of course the First Amendment demands that 78 00:05:49,13 --> 00:05:55,23 you would fire that parliamentarian in about five seconds. And yet that's what the 79 00:05:55,24 --> 00:06:00,09 Supreme Court is saying is No no you cannot you have to allow that person to by 80 00:06:00,10 --> 00:06:02,36 that time and the the 81 00:06:02,43 --> 00:06:05,25 a lot of people heard of the Citizens United ruling right how many people here do 82 00:06:05,26 --> 00:06:11,57 that six years ago. But really that logic came forty years ago in 83 00:06:11,58 --> 00:06:16,64 a ruling called Buckley versus Vallejo that was passed in the wake of the Watergate 84 00:06:16,65 --> 00:06:21,01 reforms big problem might remember President I'd say it's resigned big problem 85 00:06:21,61 --> 00:06:26,68 Congress reacted to that very big problem and so it's important to remember that we 86 00:06:26,69 --> 00:06:31,33 can force Congress to act when our problems are big enough and the Supreme Court 87 00:06:31,34 --> 00:06:36,51 gutted two thirds of that law and what they said in their logic in doing that is 88 00:06:37,06 --> 00:06:43,32 the concept that government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society 89 00:06:43,33 --> 00:06:49,28 in order to enhance. The relative voices others of others is wholly foreign to the 90 00:06:49,29 --> 00:06:55,80 First Amendment they don't go to kindergarten. And they're obviously never been to 91 00:06:55,81 --> 00:06:57,09 a city council meeting or even 92 00:06:57,10 --> 00:07:03,19 a Supreme Court argument where we do that but in seriousness that the argument that 93 00:07:03,20 --> 00:07:08,49 they would make is that well of course of course of course we limit speech in 94 00:07:08,50 --> 00:07:10,59 a forum right if there is 95 00:07:10,60 --> 00:07:15,25 a roof on your head we all have you know we're judges we have limited time we have 96 00:07:15,26 --> 00:07:18,89 to consider all these cases legislators they have limited time they've got 97 00:07:18,90 --> 00:07:21,64 thousands of bills are you limited to time that so you can have 98 00:07:21,65 --> 00:07:27,55 a debate but when there's no roof when there's no forum there should be no limits. 99 00:07:29,40 --> 00:07:35,82 Forgetting that you have limited time right as voters. But really even 100 00:07:36,27 --> 00:07:41,83 outside the building we don't hold to this unlimited theory when it comes to real 101 00:07:41,84 --> 00:07:48,62 people trying to speak talk to my friend go but you know folks of ninety nine arise 102 00:07:49,46 --> 00:07:54,47 who get arrested for speaking too much I got arrested with them in Sacramento for 103 00:07:54,48 --> 00:07:59,46 speaking too much on the state capitol talk to the folks of the Occupy movement to 104 00:07:59,47 --> 00:08:04,52 spoke too long in Zuccotti Park or the folks of the I don't know what you call him 105 00:08:04,53 --> 00:08:09,82 in Bundy's movement but you know who are speaking too long according to some people 106 00:08:09,97 --> 00:08:15,91 on the public property in the state of Oregon right now and we limit all of their 107 00:08:15,92 --> 00:08:20,52 speech to not even to enhance the voice of others but so that the public can use 108 00:08:20,53 --> 00:08:25,26 public property to do things like bird watching or enjoying Zuccotti Park or 109 00:08:25,27 --> 00:08:31,62 enjoying the steps of the California state capital. I was saying at our friend's 110 00:08:31,63 --> 00:08:35,65 house in Portland Oregon last night and was amazed he showed me 111 00:08:35,66 --> 00:08:41,35 a picture of the sign he used to have up on his own house on his own property that 112 00:08:41,36 --> 00:08:46,94 said end corporate rule and then he showed me the citation he got of fifty dollars 113 00:08:46,95 --> 00:08:51,48 a day from the city of Portland if he did not take that down for violating their 114 00:08:51,49 --> 00:08:55,27 sign ordinance. So there is 115 00:08:55,28 --> 00:08:59,48 a bonus chapter in the book so it's not actually in the book you can get today but 116 00:08:59,49 --> 00:09:03,40 if you go to the website when Money Talks dot com There are three additional 117 00:09:03,41 --> 00:09:09,16 chapters that my publisher limited my speech and said Derek I don't put in the book 118 00:09:09,26 --> 00:09:12,47 I got to get rid of them I said I'm not getting rid of them I will give them away 119 00:09:12,48 --> 00:09:18,09 for free on the Web site so but the last one is about the very real threats to free 120 00:09:18,10 --> 00:09:24,00 speech that regular people face all the time anyone here get kicked off of some 121 00:09:24,01 --> 00:09:25,56 place when you were trying to circulate 122 00:09:25,57 --> 00:09:28,77 a petition saying no you cannot speak your U.S. 123 00:09:28,78 --> 00:09:33,61 Postal Service property will not have the you know so when it comes to real people 124 00:09:33,62 --> 00:09:39,02 trying to speak we get restrictions all over the place but when it comes to 125 00:09:39,06 --> 00:09:44,22 billionaires trying to spend money on paid speech the court says oh no can't limit 126 00:09:44,23 --> 00:09:47,21 that and this comes from 127 00:09:47,80 --> 00:09:53,63 a fundamental just. This understanding of reality 128 00:09:54,54 --> 00:10:01,21 and this is something that has changed since the founders time you know in Thomas 129 00:10:01,22 --> 00:10:05,72 Jefferson's day James Madison's day the amount of information that 130 00:10:05,73 --> 00:10:11,58 a citizen could consume in their lifetime and warm will average citizen not 131 00:10:11,59 --> 00:10:14,47 Jefferson who had his own private library that became the Library of Congress but 132 00:10:14,48 --> 00:10:18,28 just regular season now that's about how much information is in 133 00:10:18,29 --> 00:10:24,56 a New York Times edition today. That's great right we're very well informed from 134 00:10:24,57 --> 00:10:30,46 our various media outlets but we are really inundated with information unlike any 135 00:10:30,47 --> 00:10:37,22 society ever in the history of the plant and you know thing about your e-mail 136 00:10:37,23 --> 00:10:41,64 box you have two hundred e-mails on open write your voicemail boxes overflowing 137 00:10:41,65 --> 00:10:44,25 you've got two hundred channels on cable T.V. 138 00:10:44,70 --> 00:10:51,50 It is overwhelming and the way we deal with that is we set up 139 00:10:51,51 --> 00:10:56,42 filters to figure out what's the most important information for me to read right so 140 00:10:56,43 --> 00:11:00,84 you've got a spam filter on your e-mail you've got a mute button on your T.V. 141 00:11:00,85 --> 00:11:06,32 For those annoying ads and there's an information guru guy who I quote in the book 142 00:11:06,33 --> 00:11:09,25 called Clay Shirky who actually says Well really there's no such thing as 143 00:11:09,26 --> 00:11:15,76 information overload only filter failure. And I think he's 144 00:11:15,77 --> 00:11:20,80 right and this leads me to sort of the second key point of the book the first one 145 00:11:20,81 --> 00:11:27,70 is you know we have limited time the second one is advertising or paid speech what 146 00:11:27,71 --> 00:11:33,04 I call paid speech is designed to cause filter factor. And there's 147 00:11:33,05 --> 00:11:36,13 a fundamental difference between you as 148 00:11:36,14 --> 00:11:43,03 a reader seeking out speech when you buy the New York Times or tune into Fox News 149 00:11:43,04 --> 00:11:49,53 or whatever your source of news that you choose and what you're doing No seriously 150 00:11:50,04 --> 00:11:55,16 what you're doing is you're choosing an information filter that you trust right and 151 00:11:55,17 --> 00:11:59,57 some people trust Fox News because they say I share their values and I want to hear 152 00:11:59,58 --> 00:12:03,38 information that's important to them and that's an absolutely legitimate choice for 153 00:12:03,39 --> 00:12:09,30 people to make That's entirely different when somebody pays to put information in 154 00:12:09,31 --> 00:12:14,16 front of you actually interrupting the program that you were tuning into that you 155 00:12:14,17 --> 00:12:19,21 did not solicit it would be like if Ted Cruz suddenly walked on the door up here 156 00:12:19,22 --> 00:12:21,92 and kicked me off the stage and said Please excuse me I have 157 00:12:21,93 --> 00:12:26,29 a thirty second information session that I'd like to give you'd say get off the 158 00:12:26,30 --> 00:12:31,12 stage Ted Go get your own room we didn't come here to hear you that's what 159 00:12:31,13 --> 00:12:36,73 advertisements are and they are screwing up all your information filters and 160 00:12:36,78 --> 00:12:43,68 forcing speech upon you that you didn't seek out. And so if we 161 00:12:43,69 --> 00:12:43,95 draw 162 00:12:43,96 --> 00:12:50,19 a line between free speech that you are paying for and really the words of the First 163 00:12:50,20 --> 00:12:54,74 Amendment say freedom of speech which is really freedom of conscience to believe 164 00:12:54,75 --> 00:12:58,66 what you want and speak with your own mouth without being sent to jail and then 165 00:12:58,67 --> 00:13:02,51 it's freedom of the press and what the founders thought of the press is much like 166 00:13:02,62 --> 00:13:07,37 the it's you know newspapers that you buy not advertisements that somebody else 167 00:13:07,38 --> 00:13:12,50 pays for you to read so if we draw that line that can cut through 168 00:13:12,54 --> 00:13:16,80 a lot of the confusion that we hear from opponents of campaign finance reform 169 00:13:17,57 --> 00:13:20,43 Senator Ted Cruz took to the floor of the U.S. 170 00:13:20,44 --> 00:13:23,33 Senate about a year and a half ago when actually 171 00:13:23,34 --> 00:13:27,07 a constitutional memo was being debated and he said well if we get money out of 172 00:13:27,08 --> 00:13:30,61 politics it will mean that the government can jail the producers of said in 173 00:13:30,62 --> 00:13:35,89 a lot. But Saturday Night Live is not an advertisement that's 174 00:13:35,90 --> 00:13:41,42 a program that people tune in to watch so I completely agree we do not want the 175 00:13:41,43 --> 00:13:46,36 government jailing producers of center not live or Fox News or The New York Times 176 00:13:46,58 --> 00:13:49,59 or a Citizens United organization making 177 00:13:49,60 --> 00:13:56,08 a movie that people pay to watch. But we also don't want 178 00:13:56,17 --> 00:14:01,23 advertisers deciding the information that we get here alternately the choice of 179 00:14:01,24 --> 00:14:04,90 what information you're going to filter out and what information you're going to 180 00:14:04,91 --> 00:14:09,90 consume given that you can't consume but five percent of the information you're 181 00:14:09,91 --> 00:14:15,79 bombarded with should be up to you and anything that infringes upon your choice of 182 00:14:15,80 --> 00:14:20,67 information is really an infringement on your liberty so if we're worried about 183 00:14:20,68 --> 00:14:24,62 government infringement on liberty let's first look at this distinction between 184 00:14:24,66 --> 00:14:31,20 free speech and paid speech. So that's my assessment of what the court has gone 185 00:14:31,28 --> 00:14:32,07 wrong it's 186 00:14:32,08 --> 00:14:37,20 a different frame to think about money in politics than the way we normally talk 187 00:14:37,21 --> 00:14:42,35 about it which has been corruption right where they the presumption is sort of 188 00:14:42,36 --> 00:14:47,64 being well yes we're willing to accept some limits on freedom of speech in order to 189 00:14:47,65 --> 00:14:52,47 prevent corruption I do think money in politics causes corruption but I don't 190 00:14:52,48 --> 00:14:56,68 accept that actually putting these limits on money in politics in any way harms 191 00:14:56,69 --> 00:15:00,34 freedom of speech I think it enhances much in the way that a two minute limits in 192 00:15:00,35 --> 00:15:05,39 a public city council meeting so. The problem is that as eloquent as that argument 193 00:15:05,40 --> 00:15:11,32 might be we have five members of the Supreme Court who disagree and probably would 194 00:15:11,33 --> 00:15:14,84 disagree even if I could talk to them personally for five hours across the dinner 195 00:15:14,85 --> 00:15:21,49 table come on really just hear me out on this. So the challenge then for the 196 00:15:21,50 --> 00:15:27,90 citizen is what do we do when we are confronted by five men wearing graduation 197 00:15:27,91 --> 00:15:33,73 gowns who refuse to let eighty percent of the country govern ourselves as we want 198 00:15:33,74 --> 00:15:36,97 to which is not only a money and politics problem it's 199 00:15:36,98 --> 00:15:40,61 a fundamental problem questioning whether we still actually live in 200 00:15:40,62 --> 00:15:46,57 a democratic republic I think. So one approach is we could wait for 201 00:15:46,58 --> 00:15:49,04 a new Supreme Court. You know there be 202 00:15:49,05 --> 00:15:53,52 a new president that new president will probably be able to appoint several new 203 00:15:53,53 --> 00:15:57,44 justices of the Supreme Court there are four of them that are getting on up there 204 00:15:57,45 --> 00:16:03,52 in age. But maybe not these are some on re people who can stick around for an awful 205 00:16:03,53 --> 00:16:09,13 long time if they choose to they're pretty healthy so. 206 00:16:10,73 --> 00:16:14,54 I have some concerns about whether or not that would actually work if it did I 207 00:16:14,55 --> 00:16:21,08 would happily take it but I would still say that we shouldn't rest there because 208 00:16:21,17 --> 00:16:26,42 ten years later the composition of the court could change again and we could see 209 00:16:26,53 --> 00:16:30,77 the foundational meaning of the First Amendment Ping-Pong back and forth every ten 210 00:16:30,78 --> 00:16:33,66 or fifteen or twenty years based on the whims of who has 211 00:16:33,67 --> 00:16:38,36 a heart attack or feels like retiring on whose watch and I don't think that's 212 00:16:38,37 --> 00:16:43,29 a way to take self-government seriously or to take our Constitution seriously you 213 00:16:43,30 --> 00:16:49,57 know it's and it still leaves this lingering question in my mind of late will who's 214 00:16:49,58 --> 00:16:54,27 really in charge here you know we could've waited for King George to die too and 215 00:16:54,28 --> 00:16:59,82 maybe the next king would have been better but. That's not what we chose to do you 216 00:16:59,83 --> 00:17:01,52 know we sacrificed 217 00:17:01,56 --> 00:17:07,06 a lot and risk everything so that we could govern ourselves and I think we need to 218 00:17:07,07 --> 00:17:12,36 push back on the judicial branch right now and there are two ways I want to 219 00:17:12,37 --> 00:17:16,17 highlight of doing that one you're familiar with we could pass 220 00:17:16,18 --> 00:17:20,21 a constitutional amendment and there are two routes to doing that that you may be 221 00:17:20,22 --> 00:17:24,35 familiar with one is for two thirds of Congress to draft the amendment which is how 222 00:17:24,36 --> 00:17:28,65 we've passed twenty seven amendments so far and the other possibility would be for 223 00:17:28,66 --> 00:17:32,55 a convention of states to draft an amendment and then either way three quarters of 224 00:17:32,56 --> 00:17:36,66 states those thirty eight state legislatures need to ratify the amendment that's 225 00:17:36,67 --> 00:17:40,32 one good reason for organizing in state legislatures right now is to pave the way 226 00:17:40,33 --> 00:17:44,13 for that. And I think this is 227 00:17:44,89 --> 00:17:50,53 a more permanent solution than just waiting for the court to change the composition 228 00:17:50,86 --> 00:17:56,23 and it's also something that citizens can directly engage in fulfills the promise 229 00:17:56,27 --> 00:18:01,80 of our democracy George Washington said in his farewell address as he was leaving 230 00:18:01,81 --> 00:18:06,70 the presidency now the basis of our political systems is the right of the people to 231 00:18:06,71 --> 00:18:13,21 make and alter their constitutions of government. And if we're saying it's now 232 00:18:13,22 --> 00:18:20,02 become too hard to amend our constitution even when eighty percent of us want 233 00:18:20,03 --> 00:18:26,07 to. I worry we've lost the promise of the framers and I'm not willing to let go of 234 00:18:26,08 --> 00:18:30,65 that so that's why even if we do get a new court I will keep pushing for 235 00:18:30,66 --> 00:18:32,89 a constitutional amendment there is 236 00:18:32,93 --> 00:18:39,87 a third way to go about this that most of us. Don't think of very often but 237 00:18:39,88 --> 00:18:41,55 that is also to return to 238 00:18:41,56 --> 00:18:47,98 a fundamental principle of the framers that the Supreme Court is not the sole 239 00:18:47,99 --> 00:18:51,97 institution in our country responsible for interpret ing and enforcing the 240 00:18:51,98 --> 00:18:57,91 Constitution the framers expected all three branches of government to check and 241 00:18:57,92 --> 00:19:02,46 balance each other not only in passing laws like the Congress does and enforcing 242 00:19:02,47 --> 00:19:07,52 them like the Executive Branch but actually in interpret the laws you know the 243 00:19:07,56 --> 00:19:10,68 right of judicial review was not in the original Constitution it's 244 00:19:10,69 --> 00:19:15,59 a practice that the courts started doing and that we the people have accepted and I 245 00:19:15,60 --> 00:19:19,93 think that fine but I don't think that they're the sole entity that should be 246 00:19:19,94 --> 00:19:23,69 playing that role and that's certainly not the intention of the framers and there's 247 00:19:23,70 --> 00:19:28,91 a great quote by Thomas Jefferson in the forward of the book to that effect but 248 00:19:29,31 --> 00:19:34,88 where we really saw this play out. In fairly recent history was the Great 249 00:19:34,89 --> 00:19:41,31 Depression where you had Franklin Delano Roosevelt elected president ited States he 250 00:19:41,32 --> 00:19:44,55 was terrified for the future of the country where it really looked like you know 251 00:19:44,56 --> 00:19:49,32 the economy was so bad the Republic could fall apart moved very aggressively to 252 00:19:49,33 --> 00:19:53,88 implement the new deal and for the first four years he was in office the Supreme 253 00:19:53,89 --> 00:19:59,24 Court struck down almost everything he got through Congress. And this is 254 00:19:59,25 --> 00:20:04,11 a pretty grave situation so he ran for reelection basically on 255 00:20:04,12 --> 00:20:10,71 a campaign against the United States Supreme Court saying they're wrong I'm right 256 00:20:11,25 --> 00:20:17,11 vote for me and they did and elected him overwhelmingly and gave him overwhelming 257 00:20:17,12 --> 00:20:21,32 majorities in Congress and he then found a way to. Pick 258 00:20:21,33 --> 00:20:27,72 a fight with the judicial branch they didn't wait for anybody to retire or die. 259 00:20:28,77 --> 00:20:32,94 That wound up having the court uphold the New Deal and ultimately cost two scholars 260 00:20:32,95 --> 00:20:36,92 feel like this actually changed our Constitution in as permanent a way as 261 00:20:36,93 --> 00:20:42,23 a constitutional amendment what and it's interesting because most historians look 262 00:20:42,24 --> 00:20:47,78 at this is one of his big failures right he proposed packing the Supreme Court 263 00:20:47,79 --> 00:20:52,37 because there's no guarantee or the number nine is not in the Constitution about 264 00:20:52,38 --> 00:20:55,23 the number of justices we're going to have he said well let's have eleven or 265 00:20:55,24 --> 00:20:56,03 thirteen allowed 266 00:20:56,04 --> 00:21:01,19 a couple more nothing illegal about that in fact we've had different numbers about 267 00:21:01,20 --> 00:21:06,67 that before but there were some qualms about that even from his own party but by 268 00:21:06,68 --> 00:21:12,34 raising that issue and challenging the institutional authority of 269 00:21:12,35 --> 00:21:16,48 a Supreme Court that I think really had gone off the rails at that time and was 270 00:21:16,49 --> 00:21:21,02 damaging the future of the country oh in Roberts who was 271 00:21:21,03 --> 00:21:26,53 a justice at the time no relation to John Roberts today I don't think. 272 00:21:28,41 --> 00:21:33,25 He flipped his vote and he started up holding the New Deal by 273 00:21:33,26 --> 00:21:38,66 a five four vote and stuck with that and other justices have stuck with that since 274 00:21:38,67 --> 00:21:42,67 that time in the new deal you know in the concept that government can regulate the 275 00:21:42,68 --> 00:21:46,52 economy through things like minimum wage laws the maximum workweek laws and all 276 00:21:46,53 --> 00:21:51,69 these other things is now considered not constitutionally controversial and this is 277 00:21:51,70 --> 00:21:55,90 known as the switch in time he switched just in time before they were going to pack 278 00:21:55,91 --> 00:22:00,54 the court to save nine right so the switch in time that saves nine was 279 00:22:00,55 --> 00:22:05,94 a result of executive leadership challenging you know the checks and balances 280 00:22:06,00 --> 00:22:11,77 between the three branches of government the court the blinked and save the country 281 00:22:11,81 --> 00:22:18,61 arguably so. I think that's an approach we need to look at now I'm not suggesting 282 00:22:18,62 --> 00:22:21,91 that our next president should try packing the court because that's sort of been 283 00:22:21,92 --> 00:22:26,08 tried and didn't work but I think we should be creatively looking for other 284 00:22:26,09 --> 00:22:30,81 opportunities to do that and we do have other examples in our history that are not 285 00:22:30,89 --> 00:22:37,54 so rosy where people executive branch officials have defied the United States 286 00:22:37,55 --> 00:22:42,06 Supreme Court and some are pretty ugly like in one nine hundred fifty eight when 287 00:22:42,07 --> 00:22:46,68 the governor of Little Rock said I'm not going to go along with the Supreme Court's 288 00:22:46,69 --> 00:22:50,93 order to desegregate schools and I'm going to call out the state National Guard the 289 00:22:50,94 --> 00:22:55,92 block African-American students from going to High School in Little Rock Well the 290 00:22:55,93 --> 00:23:01,53 Federal Executive Branch but Eisenhower said no you're not I'm going to enforce the 291 00:23:01,54 --> 00:23:05,25 United States Supreme Court opinion on this and I'm going to send in federal troops 292 00:23:05,26 --> 00:23:08,71 and those kids are going to that school the mayor of Little Rock happened to agree 293 00:23:08,72 --> 00:23:10,19 with them as well and that was 294 00:23:10,20 --> 00:23:15,87 a case where the executive of that state was out of step not only with the United 295 00:23:15,88 --> 00:23:21,36 States Supreme Court but the you in the federal executive branch and the federal 296 00:23:21,37 --> 00:23:26,93 legislative branch and so that failed and I think that that's appropriate and 297 00:23:26,94 --> 00:23:32,83 that's the check and balance on sort of runaway executive power is I claim you know 298 00:23:32,87 --> 00:23:38,07 it's only justified for the executive to push back and challenge the court's 299 00:23:38,08 --> 00:23:42,63 authority in cases where they can honestly claim to be acting on behalf of the 300 00:23:42,64 --> 00:23:47,33 people and I think Franklin Delano Roosevelt could definitely claim that in one 301 00:23:47,34 --> 00:23:50,19 nine hundred thirty six and thirty seven after running 302 00:23:50,20 --> 00:23:55,20 a campaign explicitly on this issue explicitly challenging the court and the people 303 00:23:55,21 --> 00:23:59,39 weighed in and said you're right and they're wrong and I think that that's what 304 00:23:59,40 --> 00:24:03,61 Owen Roberts was recognizing I think he was not only just saving his own 305 00:24:03,62 --> 00:24:08,71 institution from. Being weakened I think it was in fact 306 00:24:08,72 --> 00:24:15,00 a recognition that the people have spoken on this and our Constitution permits 307 00:24:15,04 --> 00:24:19,69 government regulation like the new deal so. That's 308 00:24:19,70 --> 00:24:23,52 a thing that I think States could be looking for creative opportunities to 309 00:24:23,53 --> 00:24:29,49 challenge the Federal Court Montana almost did it when they continued to uphold 310 00:24:29,53 --> 00:24:33,36 their hundred year old ban on corporate contributions after the Citizens United 311 00:24:33,37 --> 00:24:35,44 ruling ultimately defied the U.S. 312 00:24:35,45 --> 00:24:40,39 Supreme Court and the Montana State Supreme Court thumbed their nose at the U.S. 313 00:24:40,40 --> 00:24:41,22 Supreme Court and by 314 00:24:41,23 --> 00:24:44,74 a seven two vote said oh yeah we uphold that law we know the U.S. 315 00:24:44,75 --> 00:24:48,51 Supreme Court doesn't but we do well that's an interesting moment but then the 316 00:24:48,52 --> 00:24:52,74 Supreme Court struck it down and the Montanans folded their tents but I kind of 317 00:24:52,75 --> 00:24:55,62 wonder what would have happened if they didn't you know what would Brock of bomb I 318 00:24:55,63 --> 00:25:00,53 have sent in federal troops to Montana to say you must allow corporations to spend 319 00:25:00,54 --> 00:25:06,42 money in your elections. Maybe but maybe not right and that's again 320 00:25:06,55 --> 00:25:12,11 a way for both branches of government to sort of throw it open to the people and 321 00:25:12,26 --> 00:25:15,91 you know if they if the people in Montana thought the governor was being reckless 322 00:25:15,92 --> 00:25:19,86 they cannot elect him they can recall him that there's an electoral accountability 323 00:25:19,90 --> 00:25:25,47 there as well now none of these things are easy to make happen right politicians 324 00:25:25,48 --> 00:25:27,64 don't just risk their careers forcing 325 00:25:27,65 --> 00:25:31,12 a constitutional crisis with the courts or passing 326 00:25:31,13 --> 00:25:35,31 a constitutional amendment against really their own incumbent self-interest since 327 00:25:35,32 --> 00:25:38,86 they do a pretty good job raising money themselves so I've spent 328 00:25:38,87 --> 00:25:43,56 a lot of time looking the issue of what how do we get Congress and executive branch 329 00:25:43,57 --> 00:25:48,69 officials to do something that they may not want to do. And when I was researching 330 00:25:48,70 --> 00:25:50,52 this you know in the late one nine hundred ninety S. 331 00:25:50,53 --> 00:25:54,61 I ran across this practice of voter instructions and I want to talk about 332 00:25:54,62 --> 00:25:59,25 a little bit tonight because that is exactly what seven thirty five is and there is 333 00:25:59,26 --> 00:26:03,75 an amazingly long and proud history of this in this country that you all should be 334 00:26:03,76 --> 00:26:08,97 aware of as you go out and explain this ballot measure to your fellow citizens in 335 00:26:09,39 --> 00:26:13,77 Washington so let me just read one quick search from the book that will do 336 00:26:13,78 --> 00:26:18,99 a better job explaining it than I could if I just read it but. It says sometimes 337 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:23,38 voters don't want to rely only on their elected representatives to speak on their 338 00:26:23,39 --> 00:26:28,79 behalf three resolutions they want to speak directly not just as individuals but as 339 00:26:28,80 --> 00:26:34,29 the entire electorate the people it has been generations since Americans really 340 00:26:34,30 --> 00:26:38,28 thought about what it means for voters to collectively tell our elected 341 00:26:38,29 --> 00:26:43,10 representatives precisely how we want them to represent us but it played 342 00:26:43,11 --> 00:26:48,17 a central role in passing the seventeenth Amendment and there's more on that later 343 00:26:48,18 --> 00:26:53,38 in the book but constituent instructions began in England and were used by nearly 344 00:26:53,42 --> 00:26:58,55 all of the early American colonies prior to independence colonists gathered in town 345 00:26:58,56 --> 00:27:02,67 meetings to not only elect representatives to legislative assemblies but to 346 00:27:02,68 --> 00:27:08,06 specifically instruct those representatives on certain positions to take on their 347 00:27:08,07 --> 00:27:13,77 behalf. Quite different than the direct democracy practiced used today in twenty 348 00:27:13,78 --> 00:27:18,31 four states through the initiative practice whereby citizens can enact laws 349 00:27:18,32 --> 00:27:24,47 themselves and completely bypass legislators the instructions process embraces. 350 00:27:25,96 --> 00:27:31,27 Republican form of government instructions given elected officials clear directives 351 00:27:31,28 --> 00:27:35,85 on how we want them to represent us but leave the details up for our 352 00:27:35,86 --> 00:27:39,98 representatives to debate and finalize and here's the part I really want to read 353 00:27:40,94 --> 00:27:45,77 this preamble to instructions from Boston residents to their representatives in 354 00:27:45,78 --> 00:27:51,48 seven hundred sixty four this is pretty Declaration of Independence explains the 355 00:27:51,49 --> 00:27:57,82 idea we the freeholders of the town have delegated you the power of acting in our 356 00:27:57,83 --> 00:28:03,14 public concerns in general as your prudent shall direct you reserving to ourselves 357 00:28:03,15 --> 00:28:08,47 the constitutional rights of expressing our minds and giving you such instructions 358 00:28:08,52 --> 00:28:15,33 upon important subjects as it anytime we may judge proper. So this is you know 359 00:28:15,50 --> 00:28:18,89 they would send someone to go represent they sent delegates to the Continental 360 00:28:18,90 --> 00:28:22,41 Congress some of them gave them explicit marching orders and said we want you to 361 00:28:22,42 --> 00:28:27,47 declare independence from England and those delegates did that and that's what led 362 00:28:27,48 --> 00:28:33,98 to the Declaration of Independence then the states sent delegates to Philadelphia 363 00:28:34,19 --> 00:28:37,69 to draft our current constitution some of those delegates were under explicit 364 00:28:37,70 --> 00:28:42,37 instructions as to what that constitution had to look like and could not look like 365 00:28:42,78 --> 00:28:46,72 and they followed those instructions and then after the convention when they were 366 00:28:46,73 --> 00:28:51,96 going around selling the idea to the states many of those framers as part of the 367 00:28:51,97 --> 00:28:56,19 deal said hey we know it's not perfect but you'll be able to amend it and in fact 368 00:28:56,23 --> 00:29:00,42 you'll be able to use an instruction process to do that so you can hold your 369 00:29:00,43 --> 00:29:04,21 elected officials accountable and one framer from Delaware 370 00:29:04,22 --> 00:29:09,37 a guy named John Dickinson said when he was pitching the Constitution to his 371 00:29:09,38 --> 00:29:14,45 constituents saying you know it may be perhaps advisable for every state as it sees 372 00:29:14,46 --> 00:29:20,02 occasion to form with the utmost deliberation draps of alterations respectively 373 00:29:20,03 --> 00:29:25,71 required by them and to enjoin that was the word for instruct its bind their 374 00:29:25,72 --> 00:29:29,07 representatives to employ every proper method to obtain 375 00:29:29,11 --> 00:29:33,94 a ratification now. The interesting question that's been debated ever since that 376 00:29:33,95 --> 00:29:39,53 time is well how do you enjoy no elected official to follow their instructions and 377 00:29:39,54 --> 00:29:44,14 this ultimately I think will be the crux of whether your effort is successful here 378 00:29:44,15 --> 00:29:49,82 in Washington or not. When they were debating the First Amendment in the Congress 379 00:29:49,83 --> 00:29:51,69 they actually thought about putting 380 00:29:51,70 --> 00:29:56,28 a right to instruct in their not right to petition freedom to assemble right to 381 00:29:56,29 --> 00:29:59,98 instruct and they decided not to because they didn't know how that could be 382 00:30:00,11 --> 00:30:05,05 enforced sue your member of Congress to they automatically like lose their seat if 383 00:30:05,06 --> 00:30:08,32 they don't follow the instructions how we're going to force this well we'll just 384 00:30:08,33 --> 00:30:13,78 let people do the instructing and then leave the enforcement up to the people 385 00:30:13,79 --> 00:30:18,43 through the political process so it was considered 386 00:30:19,00 --> 00:30:22,70 a morally binding practice and two U.S. 387 00:30:22,71 --> 00:30:26,75 Senators who later went on to become president actually resigned their seats in the 388 00:30:26,76 --> 00:30:27,02 U.S. 389 00:30:27,03 --> 00:30:31,71 Senate rather than disregarding the instructions from their voters that's how strongly 390 00:30:31,72 --> 00:30:35,82 they felt about it and as late as the lady thousand nine hundred seven California 391 00:30:35,83 --> 00:30:41,15 was drafting its constitution and actually did include the right to instruct in our 392 00:30:41,16 --> 00:30:45,88 state constitution one of the delegates there explained the thinking of the time 393 00:30:45,89 --> 00:30:49,58 about how strong these were supposed to be he said the people have 394 00:30:49,59 --> 00:30:53,19 a right to instruct their representatives in the representative has 395 00:30:53,20 --> 00:30:59,52 a right to refuse to obey those instructions both have rights but if the 396 00:30:59,53 --> 00:31:04,46 representative cannot conscientiously obey those instructions he should resign. 397 00:31:05,39 --> 00:31:07,17 Right that's after all the job you're 398 00:31:07,18 --> 00:31:11,67 a flop applying for I would like to represent you people in the Congress or in the 399 00:31:11,68 --> 00:31:13,56 state house and so how can the nice 400 00:31:13,57 --> 00:31:18,02 a well but I don't want to represent what you just told me to do so this was once 401 00:31:18,03 --> 00:31:24,54 taken very very seriously and I think when you put together your campaign for 402 00:31:24,82 --> 00:31:29,29 initiative seven thirty five you should be laying the groundwork for this 403 00:31:29,30 --> 00:31:36,05 expectation you know we are not just here to spout our mouths off we are 404 00:31:36,06 --> 00:31:38,15 here to call you to take 405 00:31:38,19 --> 00:31:44,17 a very specific action and we expect that you'll do it and if you don't and I 406 00:31:44,18 --> 00:31:48,30 understand if you can't in good days you know good conscious fulfill your public 407 00:31:48,31 --> 00:31:52,47 duties resign your office right Kim Davis didn't think she could perform marriages 408 00:31:52,48 --> 00:31:54,31 in the state of Kentucky OK get 409 00:31:54,32 --> 00:31:56,86 a different job where you don't have to do that if you're 410 00:31:56,87 --> 00:32:00,71 a conscientious objector don't join the army if you don't want to follow the will 411 00:32:00,72 --> 00:32:02,06 of the people don't take 412 00:32:02,07 --> 00:32:07,72 a job as their elected representative cuz that's what those people do. But so 413 00:32:08,00 --> 00:32:13,09 that's the way historically Americans have thought about this and I think that's 414 00:32:13,10 --> 00:32:18,46 the way we need to start thinking about it and talking about it again so it's not 415 00:32:18,47 --> 00:32:24,73 enough for us to win an initiative seven thirty five on the ballot we need to win 416 00:32:24,74 --> 00:32:25,50 it with such 417 00:32:25,54 --> 00:32:30,59 a grassroots presence in every single congressional district in Washington that 418 00:32:30,60 --> 00:32:34,64 every single member of Congress of every single political party feels like they 419 00:32:34,65 --> 00:32:39,04 have no choice but to listen to what their constituents have done or they'll be 420 00:32:39,05 --> 00:32:39,70 replaced. 421 00:32:48,70 --> 00:32:53,35 So that's the challenge before us it's incredibly exciting how far you have come 422 00:32:53,60 --> 00:32:57,45 already let me wrap up my comments and throw it over to questions was just 423 00:32:57,46 --> 00:33:02,71 a couple of closing thoughts about what you can do first thank you for devoting 424 00:33:02,75 --> 00:33:06,75 a couple of hours your time tonight and I'm going to beg you and plead with you to 425 00:33:06,76 --> 00:33:11,82 devote five or six more hours and actually read the book and I I get that that's 426 00:33:11,83 --> 00:33:15,12 a big ask because your time is scarce and I don't have 427 00:33:15,13 --> 00:33:18,32 a billion dollar ad campaign to put the book in front of you and thirty second 428 00:33:18,33 --> 00:33:19,37 sound bites on T.V. 429 00:33:19,38 --> 00:33:23,49 Ads. To do that next night at the end of every chapter there's 430 00:33:23,50 --> 00:33:27,01 a little tip on one thing you can do and it ranges everything from like stamping 431 00:33:27,02 --> 00:33:31,38 messages on your dollar bills with the stamp stampede to running voter instruction 432 00:33:31,39 --> 00:33:36,91 much less. So read the book share it with other folks literally lend them 433 00:33:36,92 --> 00:33:42,58 a copy or tweet about it or Facebook posts it's helpful if regular readers can 434 00:33:42,59 --> 00:33:46,56 write reviews of these things on Amazon dot com or good reads things like that can 435 00:33:46,57 --> 00:33:50,93 help get the message out I mentioned there the bonus chapters that you can share 436 00:33:50,94 --> 00:33:55,79 with friends for free and Mail about the website when Money Talks dot com Also 437 00:33:55,80 --> 00:33:59,41 while I'm spouting out Web sites let me remind you I know that we have 438 00:33:59,42 --> 00:34:02,79 a couple folks filming tonight and so if you're one of those people not in the 439 00:34:02,80 --> 00:34:04,71 audience but watching this on T.V. 440 00:34:04,72 --> 00:34:09,14 And you want to get involved with this effort right now in Washington state go to 441 00:34:09,15 --> 00:34:16,11 the website for one man which is it is it women dot org. Well Man W A N 442 00:34:16,15 --> 00:34:22,57 E A N D org opened up another window on your browser right now click it join them 443 00:34:22,58 --> 00:34:29,16 while you're listening to me rap really important it's something you can do. And 444 00:34:29,17 --> 00:34:35,99 then. A final caveat I am 445 00:34:36,00 --> 00:34:41,12 not proposing these ideas about differentiating paid speech or this one tactic of 446 00:34:41,13 --> 00:34:46,16 voter instructions as the only thing we need to do and I feel like sometimes even 447 00:34:46,17 --> 00:34:48,24 in the kind of pro-democracy movement we get 448 00:34:48,25 --> 00:34:52,48 a little focused on this is the one reform and everybody needs to be doing this and 449 00:34:52,52 --> 00:34:57,36 only this because it's so important and I say no we need to do this it needs to be 450 00:34:57,37 --> 00:35:01,19 part of the mix we also need to end gerrymandering we need to end the 451 00:35:01,20 --> 00:35:05,10 constitutional doctrine that corporations are people with cost to shell rights 452 00:35:05,11 --> 00:35:08,73 which is another part of the Citizens United ruling that I didn't talk about 453 00:35:08,74 --> 00:35:12,96 tonight but there are other great books on that corporations on people by Jeff 454 00:35:12,97 --> 00:35:14,97 Clements Tom Hartman has 455 00:35:14,98 --> 00:35:19,64 a book on equal protection that's another whole battle the battle for voting rights 456 00:35:20,40 --> 00:35:26,11 on and on and on and rather than saying we all have to focus our efforts on one 457 00:35:26,15 --> 00:35:31,37 strategy or tactic I'm more think about it is like you know what if we do the last 458 00:35:31,38 --> 00:35:34,95 time our republic was totally threatened in World War two and we weren't sure we 459 00:35:34,96 --> 00:35:38,96 were going to make it we did everything we could think of as hard as humanly 460 00:35:38,97 --> 00:35:42,73 possible right we didn't go well let's just put everything in the Normandy invasion 461 00:35:42,74 --> 00:35:46,97 and hope that works it's like no do that the Manhattan Project let's do espionage 462 00:35:46,98 --> 00:35:51,30 was bombed Dresden let's every you know and we didn't know what would work and I 463 00:35:51,31 --> 00:35:57,23 don't think we know right now what's going to be the thing that will work but I do 464 00:35:57,24 --> 00:36:03,19 know that something will because I wonder percent confident that the status quo is 465 00:36:03,20 --> 00:36:08,92 not tenable it is intellectually bankrupt and it is politically bankrupt and 466 00:36:08,93 --> 00:36:13,16 unsustainable and you know I get all the time how dare you know this is impossible 467 00:36:13,17 --> 00:36:19,13 you never know Richard. Citizens United or anyone else heard that right. But just 468 00:36:19,14 --> 00:36:26,10 in my lifetime you know I'm in college I studied the Soviet Union about four weeks 469 00:36:26,11 --> 00:36:30,95 before my graduation there was no Soviet Union and you know. 470 00:36:33,68 --> 00:36:37,44 None of the political scientists that I were reading saw that coming because that 471 00:36:37,45 --> 00:36:42,80 looked like an immutable object and we saw the apartheid regime in South Africa 472 00:36:42,81 --> 00:36:44,35 fall in less than 473 00:36:44,36 --> 00:36:48,44 a year and the way these things happen I think it's like an earthquake right where 474 00:36:48,45 --> 00:36:54,42 you don't see the Plate Tectonics moving because they're not moving but pressure is 475 00:36:54,43 --> 00:36:55,68 building up until 476 00:36:55,69 --> 00:37:00,61 a point when it can no longer hold and then when things move they can move very 477 00:37:00,62 --> 00:37:05,72 fast and very quickly and we saw that one hundred years ago in this country when 478 00:37:05,76 --> 00:37:10,18 women got the right to vote we banned corporate contributions from federal 479 00:37:10,19 --> 00:37:14,36 elections we created the citizens initiative process we got the right to vote for 480 00:37:14,37 --> 00:37:14,68 U.S. 481 00:37:14,69 --> 00:37:21,42 Senators on about ten years so incredibly big changes happen very quickly and I think 482 00:37:21,43 --> 00:37:24,79 that will happen again and I think it may be less further off than 483 00:37:24,80 --> 00:37:30,42 a lot of folks think when we reach that earthquake or political fault so don't let 484 00:37:30,43 --> 00:37:34,49 anyone tell you it can't be done keep doing what you're doing and I will not limit 485 00:37:34,50 --> 00:37:40,23 my speech so that we can get some questions for you BUT THANK YOU THANK YOU 486 00:37:40,24 --> 00:37:45,91 THANK YOU 487 00:37:45,92 --> 00:37:52,71 THANK YOU We have. We have we have two microphones you can just line up on either 488 00:37:52,72 --> 00:37:59,49 side to task question. Started here I know you 489 00:37:59,64 --> 00:38:03,37 write about it in the book but I haven't read this part if you promise to say 490 00:38:03,38 --> 00:38:07,04 a little bit about what an amendment should look like can you do that clearly 491 00:38:07,05 --> 00:38:12,46 briefly Yes I just turned off my computer with my notes but there's 492 00:38:12,47 --> 00:38:16,42 a whole chapter on this and I kind of and again this is an amendment only to fix 493 00:38:16,43 --> 00:38:20,60 the money is speech part not the corporate personhood part you can combine this 494 00:38:20,61 --> 00:38:23,75 language into one amendment and deal with that or you could pass them too 495 00:38:23,76 --> 00:38:24,71 separately or 496 00:38:24,72 --> 00:38:29,78 a judge could write these words and again I don't believe that these particular 497 00:38:29,79 --> 00:38:32,83 words are magical I think they're 498 00:38:32,87 --> 00:38:36,77 a little bit better than several versions that have come before and I'm confident 499 00:38:36,78 --> 00:38:43,75 that they'll continue to get better as we evolve and work on this and you 500 00:38:43,76 --> 00:38:46,55 know process wise I actually think we'll come up with 501 00:38:46,56 --> 00:38:48,08 a much better wording through 502 00:38:48,09 --> 00:38:52,06 a collaborative crowdsourcing process of having the whole country think about it 503 00:38:52,39 --> 00:38:55,55 and debate it through committee hearings in the U.S. 504 00:38:55,56 --> 00:38:58,74 Senate than having one judge in a couple of clerks spend 505 00:38:58,75 --> 00:39:02,97 a couple hours on it and reading the court opinion so I think an amendment will get 506 00:39:02,98 --> 00:39:07,09 a superior language to a court ruling but again as I said I will still take 507 00:39:07,13 --> 00:39:11,02 a court ruling that overturned Citizens United tomorrow if any justice is 508 00:39:11,34 --> 00:39:18,20 interested in doing that but. Let me see if I can actually. Because it's a short 509 00:39:18,21 --> 00:39:23,02 a memory that I would present I could just read it to you. Here we go to advance 510 00:39:23,03 --> 00:39:27,00 democratic self-government and political equality ensure 511 00:39:27,04 --> 00:39:32,11 a fair and balanced debate and protect the integrity of government and the 512 00:39:32,12 --> 00:39:37,68 electoral process nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit limits on the amount 513 00:39:37,69 --> 00:39:44,51 of money spent in or given to election campaigns or political advertisements and 514 00:39:44,90 --> 00:39:46,84 I like that language a little bit better than 515 00:39:46,88 --> 00:39:51,13 a lot of the existing drafts that are out there that talk about regulating or 516 00:39:51,14 --> 00:39:58,08 limiting money. Expenditures to promote political viewpoints and 517 00:39:58,09 --> 00:40:02,01 that the trouble with that Tom I think is well some people think that does sound 518 00:40:02,02 --> 00:40:07,26 like the New York Times but you do have to expend money to print the New York Times 519 00:40:07,27 --> 00:40:11,36 and the higher reporters and all those things but nobody thinks of the New York 520 00:40:11,37 --> 00:40:13,40 Times as a political campaign or 521 00:40:13,41 --> 00:40:19,41 a political advertisement so. Those are some of the distinctions that you know 522 00:40:19,85 --> 00:40:20,16 that's 523 00:40:20,17 --> 00:40:24,06 a draft with I'm throwing out there I think it's worth thinking about and I think 524 00:40:24,07 --> 00:40:31,02 we'll continue to improve on it. Next question. Well. An attorney 525 00:40:31,12 --> 00:40:36,45 and once told me when I was trying to gather signatures from him and his Fife that 526 00:40:36,95 --> 00:40:43,71 our. I seventy five didn't go far enough because it just urged legislators 527 00:40:44,11 --> 00:40:50,95 rather than having stronger terminology that you just mentioned So really what 528 00:40:50,99 --> 00:40:57,65 will our amendment achieve. It I do prefer the word 529 00:40:57,66 --> 00:41:04,54 instruct or charge as opposed to the word urge but there's no legal 530 00:41:04,58 --> 00:41:10,64 difference there's no legal way to enforce any of those things so it comes down to 531 00:41:10,65 --> 00:41:15,57 that moment when somebody has ignored them and you're saying well it's time for you 532 00:41:15,58 --> 00:41:20,65 to resign and they go well I didn't because you only urged me not instruct me I 533 00:41:20,66 --> 00:41:27,20 don't think that's going to wash so yeah there's always ways we could tweak the 534 00:41:27,21 --> 00:41:33,09 wordings of these things but I think the intense pretty clear and I think any 535 00:41:33,10 --> 00:41:36,98 member of Congress the intense pretty clear and they had better listen up but 536 00:41:36,99 --> 00:41:43,14 ultimately. The enforcement will come in whether or not voters choose to remove 537 00:41:43,15 --> 00:41:49,29 somebody from office who doesn't follow this they're urging either way. Yes. 538 00:41:51,63 --> 00:41:57,93 In observing the two thousand and sixteen presidential elections unfold so far 539 00:41:58,63 --> 00:42:04,54 it seems to me that the contest between Hillary Clinton supporters and Bernie 540 00:42:04,55 --> 00:42:06,45 Sanders supporters is 541 00:42:06,46 --> 00:42:12,64 a contest between those who believe that the status quo is basically OK and looking 542 00:42:12,65 --> 00:42:13,78 for basically 543 00:42:13,82 --> 00:42:20,45 a third Obama term versus those who believe that no the status quo is not OK and we 544 00:42:20,46 --> 00:42:22,45 need really really big changes and 545 00:42:22,46 --> 00:42:27,93 a fundamentally flawed system if you would agree that the status quo is not OK and 546 00:42:27,94 --> 00:42:31,83 that we need big changes what do you think is the best way to convince Hillary 547 00:42:31,84 --> 00:42:37,95 supporters or the country at large that we really do that the status quo is not OK 548 00:42:38,07 --> 00:42:43,14 and that we really do need big changes Well I don't actually think hardly anyone 549 00:42:43,15 --> 00:42:48,65 thinks the status quo is OK I think the difference of opinion is about whether or 550 00:42:48,66 --> 00:42:53,87 not we can do anything about it. Which kind of gets back to this fundamental 551 00:42:53,88 --> 00:42:58,64 question of you know do we still run our country or not because if we can't do 552 00:42:58,65 --> 00:43:04,45 anything about the status quo. What happened to George Washington's promise. 553 00:43:05,50 --> 00:43:11,43 But I do think there is something extraordinary going on in this election and this 554 00:43:11,44 --> 00:43:16,69 is been building up in past elections but there are three things happening one is 555 00:43:17,14 --> 00:43:22,84 small donors are actually playing a bigger and bigger role and that's in part 556 00:43:22,85 --> 00:43:26,68 a technological thing it started with Jerry Brown in one thousand nine hundred two 557 00:43:26,69 --> 00:43:27,20 throwing out 558 00:43:27,21 --> 00:43:32,08 a one eight hundred number I mean that right and then Howard Dean and Barack Obama 559 00:43:32,09 --> 00:43:36,30 started you know successfully using online and these were tools that allowed us to 560 00:43:36,31 --> 00:43:40,55 raise large amounts of small contributions in ways that were so much more cost 561 00:43:40,56 --> 00:43:44,46 effective than direct mail that small donors could really start having 562 00:43:44,47 --> 00:43:49,09 a big impact and when you look at Bernie Sanders fundraising numbers you know it's 563 00:43:49,13 --> 00:43:54,69 historic It's epic and part of it's that technology but there's way more to it than 564 00:43:54,70 --> 00:43:59,06 technology right the other thing that is happening and I talk in the book about we 565 00:43:59,07 --> 00:44:03,73 need to change the political calculus of incumbents because right now and Mitch 566 00:44:03,74 --> 00:44:07,40 McConnell spells out this calculus very clearly in one thousand nine hundred ninety 567 00:44:07,41 --> 00:44:11,34 four letter to his colleagues in the house that got leaked to The Washington Post 568 00:44:11,35 --> 00:44:15,69 where he says What are you doing supporting campaign finance reform we would be 569 00:44:15,70 --> 00:44:20,96 foolish to throw away our ability to compete we killed this last year and we all 570 00:44:20,97 --> 00:44:27,88 got reelected so shut up in so many words. And the calculus was at 571 00:44:27,89 --> 00:44:33,54 the time that the advantage of big money is more than the disadvantage of being 572 00:44:33,55 --> 00:44:37,24 crosswise with your constituents on this issue because people don't really care 573 00:44:37,25 --> 00:44:44,16 about this issue well. The advantage of big money is less right 574 00:44:44,17 --> 00:44:50,47 now for the third reason we now have our own media sources right social media 575 00:44:50,48 --> 00:44:54,23 Twitter on lying we've got people filming here who don't work for one of the three 576 00:44:54,24 --> 00:44:57,51 networks I think you know Bernie Sanders hasn't run 577 00:44:57,52 --> 00:45:01,00 a single ad in California and that all my neighbors seem to have heard of I'm right 578 00:45:01,04 --> 00:45:06,82 that's because they have Facebook so I'm not saying big money doesn't matter but 579 00:45:06,83 --> 00:45:12,72 I'm saying we have some new tools and I think people are way more mad about this 580 00:45:12,73 --> 00:45:17,93 than they have been in the past and those three things I think are changing the 581 00:45:17,94 --> 00:45:22,19 political calculus who remains to be seen if they change it in this election or not 582 00:45:22,20 --> 00:45:23,52 but I do think 583 00:45:23,53 --> 00:45:27,50 a lot of the appeal of both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump is saying I'm not 584 00:45:27,51 --> 00:45:32,91 taking money from super PACs I'm not doing that and you know in the past that would 585 00:45:32,92 --> 00:45:37,91 be called unilateral disarmament and complete suicide in stupidity but I think 586 00:45:37,92 --> 00:45:44,50 they're getting more support for doing that than they've lost in funds so when 587 00:45:44,51 --> 00:45:48,45 other politicians start seeing that oh maybe actually the way to get reelected is I 588 00:45:48,46 --> 00:45:54,17 need to be for this that's the calculus that changes and I'm not one of those who 589 00:45:54,18 --> 00:45:58,93 say we need to wait until control of Congress changes from one party or the other 590 00:45:58,94 --> 00:46:03,97 of this and that you know I think what needs to happen is for maybe two or three 591 00:46:04,06 --> 00:46:08,63 members of Congress to lose their seats because of this issue and that could happen 592 00:46:08,64 --> 00:46:11,64 in a Democratic primary or a Republican primary or 593 00:46:11,65 --> 00:46:14,77 a general election but you know look at the power of the N.R.A. 594 00:46:14,81 --> 00:46:20,64 Right they run the show no matter what party is in Congress and they don't annoy 595 00:46:20,65 --> 00:46:25,51 Lect A lot of people but they sometimes do take out two or three people for 596 00:46:25,52 --> 00:46:30,76 crossing them and everyone else runs scared. Two or three people get taken out over 597 00:46:30,77 --> 00:46:36,11 this issue they will run scared and I think they are already pretty scared about 598 00:46:36,12 --> 00:46:40,59 what's going on with Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump and you know it may or may not 599 00:46:41,05 --> 00:46:46,19 alternately prevail I think it might but either way they're taking notice and the 600 00:46:46,20 --> 00:46:52,88 political calculus is changing and that'll you know once that changes all of these 601 00:46:52,89 --> 00:46:57,14 reforms that look impossible suddenly become possible you know public financing of 602 00:46:57,15 --> 00:47:01,87 campaigns disclosure constitutional amendment gerrymandering because the plate 603 00:47:01,88 --> 00:47:05,61 tectonics will shift and so we that's again why I'm saying we don't focus on just 604 00:47:05,62 --> 00:47:10,81 one we need to have the whole pipeline of stuff ready to go through I do think this 605 00:47:10,92 --> 00:47:14,39 super PAC and money and politics thing is the thing that people in maybe the most 606 00:47:14,43 --> 00:47:18,35 aware of the name read about so it's a great organizing tool but there's 607 00:47:18,36 --> 00:47:25,21 a long answer to your short question yes. This has been an unusual camp 608 00:47:25,84 --> 00:47:30,63 it is sort of seven thirty five because it's of mostly volunteer initiative most of 609 00:47:30,64 --> 00:47:36,04 them are signature gathering initiatives that you have started. And given that what 610 00:47:36,05 --> 00:47:42,18 do you think of. How can we make them more participatory and more less dependent on 611 00:47:42,19 --> 00:47:47,38 mine and also what do think of the idea of initiative process for the federal 612 00:47:47,39 --> 00:47:54,18 government. I like it. 613 00:47:57,27 --> 00:48:01,60 It's scary you know I'm from California and most liberals and progressives in 614 00:48:01,61 --> 00:48:05,42 California hate the initiative process because one time in the one nine hundred 615 00:48:05,43 --> 00:48:05,93 seventy S. 616 00:48:05,94 --> 00:48:10,50 The people did something that we thought was really dumb and it was really you know 617 00:48:10,51 --> 00:48:13,55 it hurt our state a lot right we passed Prop thirteen you've got 618 00:48:13,56 --> 00:48:18,70 a guy to my man up here who's doing it you know. In so we tend to want to get rid 619 00:48:18,71 --> 00:48:22,99 of the process because sometimes voters disagree with us and I think the better 620 00:48:23,00 --> 00:48:27,90 solution in the long run is to educate the voters and persuade them to agree with 621 00:48:27,91 --> 00:48:33,17 us but this is one of the Yeah I think it's in the last chapter in the book I kind 622 00:48:33,18 --> 00:48:39,74 of start inching there and I if Washington prevails which I think you will and if 623 00:48:39,75 --> 00:48:43,04 California prevails which I think we will we're working on getting 624 00:48:43,05 --> 00:48:48,55 a very similar question Prop forty nine back on the ballot in California. I think 625 00:48:48,56 --> 00:48:49,69 the next step is 626 00:48:49,70 --> 00:48:54,78 a national voter instruction measure introduced in Congress where we let the whole 627 00:48:54,79 --> 00:49:00,23 country vote on I one thirty five now again that wouldn't pass 628 00:49:00,24 --> 00:49:05,89 a constitutional amendment in and of itself it wouldn't be legally binding but it 629 00:49:05,90 --> 00:49:11,51 would be unprecedented this idea has been introduced before it's legally possible 630 00:49:11,52 --> 00:49:17,09 there have been bills to do it in opposition to World War two For example. One of 631 00:49:17,10 --> 00:49:18,03 them actually received 632 00:49:18,04 --> 00:49:24,35 a floor vote on the House of Representatives so think of that as your next act when 633 00:49:24,36 --> 00:49:30,58 you're bored the day after the election you're going around asking your members of 634 00:49:30,59 --> 00:49:34,99 Congress to obey the instructions and I went thirty five and someone says oh yeah I 635 00:49:34,100 --> 00:49:38,57 already had to do that what's your next ask you why don't you introduce 636 00:49:38,58 --> 00:49:40,01 a bill in Congress for 637 00:49:40,02 --> 00:49:46,10 a national one thirty five. Seven thirty five get that for her 638 00:49:46,68 --> 00:49:52,88 initiative seven thirty five one man that org. And you know 639 00:49:53,53 --> 00:49:58,14 I think it's intriguing and I think it's one of the best things we could do to 640 00:49:58,15 --> 00:50:02,38 reinvigorate participatory democracy and let people feel like they really do have 641 00:50:02,39 --> 00:50:05,25 a way to make their voice heard now that's 642 00:50:05,26 --> 00:50:10,25 a good transition because I wanted to ask you about voter instructions also I think 643 00:50:10,26 --> 00:50:14,00 it's incredibly interesting concept but I'm having 644 00:50:14,01 --> 00:50:19,98 a little trouble figuring out how we could move into that I see like on the 645 00:50:19,99 --> 00:50:25,55 national level that like if we if we need if we want to get 646 00:50:25,56 --> 00:50:30,00 a question answered by our senators at least the last time I tried to you have to 647 00:50:30,01 --> 00:50:36,54 fill out an application to do that and that the congressman both 648 00:50:36,55 --> 00:50:42,07 representatives and the senators go there go to Congress and if they're not 649 00:50:42,16 --> 00:50:47,25 millionaires to begin with they're almost all millionaires when they come out and 650 00:50:47,70 --> 00:50:52,57 Brock Obama has talked about well the people are more interested in their jobs than 651 00:50:52,58 --> 00:50:57,97 our jobs and even at the state level I've had to stand up and speak. 652 00:51:00,63 --> 00:51:06,41 Sort of against my three legislators at the time which was really quite difficult 653 00:51:06,42 --> 00:51:07,67 to do because they worked as 654 00:51:07,68 --> 00:51:14,64 a team and I didn't know as much as they did but so I don't quite see 655 00:51:15,10 --> 00:51:21,94 how I made the other people could move into that with people with 656 00:51:21,95 --> 00:51:27,20 such Narcissus in our culture in politics well it's easy to just write 657 00:51:27,21 --> 00:51:31,01 a thousand dollar check to that member of Congress and then they want even need the 658 00:51:31,02 --> 00:51:33,36 webform they'll invite you into their office new can have 659 00:51:33,37 --> 00:51:39,28 a nice chat this is the way it works she got to buy access right now. That is the 660 00:51:39,29 --> 00:51:46,02 way it works right and again. What's happening is paid lobbyists who are 661 00:51:46,06 --> 00:51:51,12 hired by corporations and billionaires are taking up all of your representatives 662 00:51:51,13 --> 00:51:55,09 scarce time because they need to meet with them or they won't get 663 00:51:55,10 --> 00:52:00,49 a campaign contribution so even if they don't always vote with that lobbyist 664 00:52:00,85 --> 00:52:05,95 they're still taking up time that they should be meeting with you right so what do 665 00:52:05,96 --> 00:52:09,81 we do about this you don't just show up by yourself you show up with ten other 666 00:52:09,82 --> 00:52:16,00 people or twenty other people or you join an organization you know we are fighting 667 00:52:16,01 --> 00:52:20,84 this battle with one arm behind our back but that doesn't mean that we can afford 668 00:52:20,85 --> 00:52:23,70 to give up so we have to find 669 00:52:23,71 --> 00:52:28,04 a way and you know previous generations have found 670 00:52:28,05 --> 00:52:32,05 a way you think it was easy for women to get the right to vote you think they got 671 00:52:32,06 --> 00:52:35,14 a meeting with their member of Congress excuse me I'd like to sit down talk about 672 00:52:35,15 --> 00:52:40,09 my right to vote no way they picketed outside the White House and got arrested and 673 00:52:40,10 --> 00:52:47,08 went on hunger strikes you know see the. Movies So that is another tactic 674 00:52:47,09 --> 00:52:53,25 that I think we are right for is direct action and nonviolent protest you know 675 00:52:53,96 --> 00:52:58,50 that's part of what ended apartheid that's part of what ended apartheid in this 676 00:52:58,51 --> 00:53:05,26 country and got us the Civil Rights Act We cannot satisfy ourselves with filling 677 00:53:05,27 --> 00:53:05,39 out 678 00:53:05,40 --> 00:53:10,07 a web form and going Well I hope they listen to me we need to do that but we need 679 00:53:10,08 --> 00:53:16,53 to do everything else and force them to listen to us and we can't and we have done 680 00:53:16,54 --> 00:53:22,68 it before we've won huge battles in this country you know where used to be only 681 00:53:22,69 --> 00:53:28,33 propertied white men can vote so everything is hard fought and this is hard fought 682 00:53:28,34 --> 00:53:30,91 and we just have to keep at it. I hope that's 683 00:53:30,92 --> 00:53:36,61 a satisfactory answer but you know there's no alternative but dogged determination 684 00:53:36,62 --> 00:53:40,47 you know the kind of determination that lead someone to go get twenty thousand 685 00:53:40,95 --> 00:53:42,11 petition signatures. 686 00:53:48,47 --> 00:53:55,16 All right final question I think. I love all of those ideas and I would say 687 00:53:55,20 --> 00:54:01,74 not after not next but now all of the above right now and in fact all of this is 688 00:54:01,75 --> 00:54:03,11 happening right now there is 689 00:54:03,12 --> 00:54:06,90 a corporation in Maryland that is true ing to get the right to vote I forget the 690 00:54:06,91 --> 00:54:08,52 name of it but they are doing that 691 00:54:08,90 --> 00:54:14,52 a friend of mine in California Jonathan Freeman I don't think I put him in the book 692 00:54:14,53 --> 00:54:19,05 but I should have. You know he likes to ride around in the H. O. 693 00:54:19,06 --> 00:54:22,30 The lame carpool lane with 694 00:54:22,31 --> 00:54:26,98 a briefcase in his passenger seat and his incorporation papers say oh. 695 00:54:29,93 --> 00:54:35,07 Pretty good on. He got pulled over by the Highway Patrol as I have two people in 696 00:54:35,08 --> 00:54:38,97 the car with me right here what do you mean. They gave him 697 00:54:38,98 --> 00:54:43,21 a ticket he went to court he got his fifteen minutes of fame hearing all over it 698 00:54:43,22 --> 00:54:43,38 got 699 00:54:43,39 --> 00:54:50,33 a ton of news but people are finding incredibly creative ways to point out the 700 00:54:50,37 --> 00:54:56,20 absurdity of the situation that we're in and then yet can't vote can't contribute 701 00:54:56,21 --> 00:54:57,83 rule imagine if you're in 702 00:54:57,84 --> 00:55:01,26 a New England town meeting your own city council meeting and so on they're like you 703 00:55:01,27 --> 00:55:05,38 know four hundred people from New York City Goldman Sachs employees show up and 704 00:55:05,39 --> 00:55:10,56 they'd like their two minutes you know like no this is our city council meeting you 705 00:55:10,57 --> 00:55:11,87 know you can maybe hand out 706 00:55:11,88 --> 00:55:15,27 a flyer outside but in terms of speaking in the meeting that's for people who live 707 00:55:15,28 --> 00:55:17,61 in the town same thing if you want to write 708 00:55:17,62 --> 00:55:20,39 a check and speak about that election you should be 709 00:55:20,40 --> 00:55:24,73 a constituent in that election the voters of Oregon thought that in one thousand 710 00:55:24,74 --> 00:55:27,90 nine hundred seventy nine hundred ninety four and they passed 711 00:55:27,91 --> 00:55:32,55 a ballot measure requiring seventy five percent of the funds that any politician 712 00:55:32,56 --> 00:55:39,41 raises has to come from the state of Oregon is Supreme Court said no money is 713 00:55:39,42 --> 00:55:45,29 speech and you cannot discriminate against the speaker and an out of state bribe is 714 00:55:45,30 --> 00:55:51,52 no more corrupting than an in-state bribe the. State of Alaska 715 00:55:51,76 --> 00:55:52,92 also passed 716 00:55:52,93 --> 00:55:58,79 a similar measure on the Supreme Court of Alaska held. And I think it may still be 717 00:55:58,80 --> 00:56:01,98 on the books and James Bopp is getting ready to challenge it so I shouldn't say 718 00:56:01,99 --> 00:56:04,49 this too loudly but there is 719 00:56:04,50 --> 00:56:11,50 a precedent for that and I think states should keep passing these now and if the 720 00:56:11,86 --> 00:56:15,44 Supreme Court keeps striking them down we don't care we pass another one you know 721 00:56:15,45 --> 00:56:19,43 and same thing on all of these things it's a way to create new test cases 722 00:56:19,44 --> 00:56:21,08 a new pressure on the court and that's 723 00:56:21,09 --> 00:56:27,90 a commonsense idea that everyone can agree to so again not next not 724 00:56:27,91 --> 00:56:32,12 after I know you're busy I know you have limited time I know you have an incredibly 725 00:56:32,13 --> 00:56:36,26 important ballot measure campaign to pass here there are other great efforts in 726 00:56:36,27 --> 00:56:40,80 Washington State to you know that Seattle just an act of this great public 727 00:56:40,81 --> 00:56:44,96 financing voucher system and they'll be an effort to take that state wide not next 728 00:56:44,97 --> 00:56:51,81 not after all of that now I know it's tiring but you know how important it is and I 729 00:56:51,82 --> 00:56:56,64 know we're all going to win together so thank you for coming. It's wrappings out 730 00:56:56,65 --> 00:57:02,24 THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU 731 00:57:02,25 --> 00:57:07,31 If you have.