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Language: en

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-Our first guest tonight is
a United States Senator

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from Vermont.
Please welcome back to the show

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our friend Senator
Bernie Sanders, everybody.

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[ Cheers and applause ]

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[ Mid-tempo music plays ]

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♪♪

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[ Cheers and applause ]

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Senator, it's always a pleasure
to have you here.

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-Great to be with you.

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-We've talked a lot over Zoom
the last three years,

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but it's been three years
since I've seen you in person.

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It makes a big difference,
so I appreciate

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you making the effort.
-My pleasure.

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-I promise we're gonna
get to the serious stuff,

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but I do enjoy talking
about how, often,

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photos of you turn into memes.

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[ Laughter ]

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-With or without mittens,
right?

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-This one, you actually proved
that the mittens --

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you don't need the mittens
to be a meme.

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Everybody was putting too much
on the mittens.

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You can do it all on your own.
This was in August --

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and it was you sitting
on the Capitol steps,

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and somebody memed you there.
[ Laughter ]

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Have you reached the point
now where --

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Do you have any awareness,
in the moment, of, "Oh,

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I'm gonna get memed again"?
[ Laughter ]

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-What that was really about is,

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it was an all-night session
of the Senate.

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Wearing a mask
for like 14 hours,

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uh, 18 million amendments.

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So there you are -- getting
some fresh air and sunshine.

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-Getting some fresh air.
So I want to talk about

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the Inflation Reduction Act,
which is really

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an incredible accomplishment,
considering it's a 50/50 Senate.

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Certainly very high hurdles to
overcome to get anything passed.

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Yet it did come up
a little short,

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or maybe a lot short,
of what you wanted.

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-I would say, a lot short.
-Okay.

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So, do you think it's enough
for Democrats to run on

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in the midterms or do you --
-No.

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-Okay.
-No, I don't.

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Look, what we don't talk about
in Congress,

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and we don't talk about
in the media,

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is what's going on with working
families in this country.

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And the truth is that
the middle class of this country

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is falling
further and further behind.

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Wages are not keeping up
with inflation.

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You got over 70 million people
who have no health insurance,

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or they're underinsured.

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You got 600,000 people
who are homeless.

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You got people who can't afford
prescription drugs.

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Kids can't afford
to go to college.

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Kids are leaving school
deeply in debt,

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et cetera, et cetera,
not to mention climate change.

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So I think what we have got to
be honest about,

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with the American people,
say, "Look,

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we're in rough shape right now.
This is reality.

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And this is what we have to do
to get out of it."

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But I think, Seth, being honest
with the American people,

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talking about the growing gap
between the very rich

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and everybody else --
we got three people in America

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own more wealth than the
bottom half of American society.

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We got three Wall Street firms
that have assets

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of $20 trillion,
major stockholders

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in hundreds and hundreds of
companies throughout America.

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We got billionaires
buying elections right now.

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You're following
what's going on.

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So we got to be honest
with the American people

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about what's going on,

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about who owns and controls
the nation,

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and then have the guts
to stand up

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to these powerful
special interests

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and tell these greedy bastards
they cannot have it all.

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[ Cheers and applause ]

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-During the back-and-forth,
during the amendments,

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during all the negotiations

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for the Inflation Reduction Act
bill,

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did you think to yourself,

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"If we just had
two more Senators --"

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did you think to yourself, "If
we had just five more Senators,

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10 Senators"?
What's the difference?

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-Look, what
the president wanted,

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what I wanted,
what I think 48 members

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of the U.S. Senate --
Democrats -- wanted

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is transformational change
in this country.

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We wanted to make at least
community-college tuition-free.

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We wanted to expand Medicare.

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You know, there are millions of
elderly people in this country

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can't afford to go
to a dentist,

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can't afford hearing aids,
can't afford eyeglasses.

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We wanted to go a lot further
than the Inflation Reduction Act

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in transforming
our energy system

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away from fossil fuel.

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We wanted to deal with the
dysfunctionality of childcare,

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make pre-K free
for working families

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in this country.
Wanted to build

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millions of units
of affordable housing,

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putting people to work
doing all of that.

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In other words,
what we wanted to do, Seth,

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is finally tell
the American people

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that their government worked
for them

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and not just billionaires.

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We were two votes shy,
and I think those two

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votes are going to hurt us
a whole lot.

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-And now, obviously, you have
an election coming up.

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Is it a lot harder to make an
argument going into an election

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that, "If you just
give us two more,

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we'll make a difference,"
than it would have been

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if you had passed a more
robust...?

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-I think it will be harder,
but I think what the message

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has got to be is,
"We understand.

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We feel the pain
that working families

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are currently experiencing,

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that elderly people
are experiencing.

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Give us the Senate plus two.

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Give us two more,
and we are prepared

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to take on the powerful
special interests right now

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who currently dominate
what goes on in Congress."

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-It must be frustrating
for someone like you,

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that has a real understanding of
the minutiae of the economy,

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how it affects so many people,

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and yet you must also appreciate
that you're at the mercy,

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come election day,
or we might be at the mercy,

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of what the gas prices are
that day,

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that not every American looks
at the stock-market ticker

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every day,
but most of them drive by

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and they see a number.
-Right.

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-And that number
indicates something.

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-That's right.
You're absolutely right.

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And yet what
we should understand is

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that while gas prices
have soared --

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they have gone down
considerably --

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the oil companies are making
record-breaking profits.

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When people go
to the supermarket

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and see the high price of food,
understand that you got

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a handful of food companies
that control the industry,

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that are also making
record-breaking profits.

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So I think what
we have to deal with is

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this issue of corporate greed,

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of billionaire control
of our political system,

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of concentration of ownership,

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and we've got to tell
the American people

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that we're going to fight.

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And it's not gonna happen
tomorrow,

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but the fight has got to be

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for a government that works
for all of us

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and not just
for the people on top.

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And I'll tell you something,
Seth.

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If we are not successful
in doing that,

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you're going to see
more and more people saying,

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"I don't believe in democracy.

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Why are you telling me
about government?

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You give me 30-second
stupid ad on TV,

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and yet I can't afford
to send my kid to college,

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I can't afford rent,
I can't afford to buy a house.

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Don't tell me
about that crap anymore.

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I want a strong man
who's gonna get things right,

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get the trains to run on time."

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And you see that in Italy
recently.

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So, you know, this is
not just an economic issue.

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It's a political issue, and
that we can lose our democracy

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unless you have a government
that stands with

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the working class
of this country

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and not just
wealthy campaign contributors.

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-You obviously wanted, again --
I think this is going to be

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a theme of this interview --
You wanted more, you know,

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debt forgiveness
on student loans.

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-Yeah.
-We did get --

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or it should be said,
it was passed -- about $20,000.

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-Yeah, not insignificant,

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and I applaud the president
for doing that.

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-I think a lot of people
talked about what

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the political implications
of that are,

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how it can be framed.

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You, I think,
maybe more than anybody else,

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appreciate
exactly what it means

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for those people
who had that money forgiven.

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How does it change the life
of somebody

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to have $20,000 forgiven?

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-Seth, I was in Philadelphia
maybe a month ago.

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I met with a bunch of people,
including many, many nurses.

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We have a desperate need
for more nurses in this country,

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and yet these nurses
graduated college

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deeply, deeply in debt.

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And this nurse got up there and
said, "Bernie, we are not --

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my family, my husband and I,
we are not having kids now

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because of student debt.

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We can't buy a house,
because every month,

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we're paying off this outrageous
level of student debt."

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So, you have millions and
millions of people

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who are unable to go out
and live their lives,

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because they
"committed the crime"

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of getting an education.
I mean, how crazy is that?

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You want people
to get a good education, right?

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We're not going to have
a strong country

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unless we have a
well-educated workforce.

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And yet people have to go
$50,000, $100,000 in debt.

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You want to go to
medical school, dental school,

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we're talking about
$300,000, $400,000 in debt.

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How crazy is that?
I mean, that is why,

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in my view -- and I think the
American people support it --

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we must make public colleges and
universities tuition-free

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so that people don't
leave school deeply in debt,

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so that we can have
working-class and

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lower-income kids
be able to go to college

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without worrying about
having to pay off their debt

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you know, for the next 50 years
of their lives.

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-I think that's
an excellent point,

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and I'm glad you continue
to bang the drum on that.

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And I have a lot more
to ask you about.

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We'll be right back with more
from Senator Bernie Sanders

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right after this.
[ Cheers and applause ]